Township Rakes in Red-Light Camera Revenue
Red-light cameras have been a hot topic of discussion at recent Township Council meetings.
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Gloucester Township has collected more than $2.5 million in fines through tickets issued from 10 red-light cameras positioned at four intersections along Blackwood Clementon Road from July 2010 through December 2011, with local revenue of more than $1.3 million.
The township is one of about two dozen municipalities in New Jersey approved to utilize the red-light cameras under a pilot program since late 2008.
The decision to take part in the program was made here in early 2010, at least in part to increase traffic safety along Blackwood Clementon Road, according to officials.
But there was another reason—one that many might not consider when thinking about the cameras—Mayor David Mayer said this week.
"We had to try to slow traffic down. And we had to do that for a number of reasons," Mayer said. "One is safety. The other is economic development. Traffic just flowed too quickly through there. As you can see, that corridor is not thriving."
The theory behind that line of thinking is that alert motorists, concerned about getting a ticket for blowing a red light, will drive at lower speeds and take notice of the businesses around them.
"The traffic-light cameras certainly, I think, have got the attention of motorists," Mayer said.
The cameras are operational at Blackwood Clementon Road's intersections with Cherrywood Drive, Little Gloucester Road, Erial Road and Millbridge Road.
The numbers
Between July 2010 and December 2011, a total of 38,766 traffic tickets were issued to motorists as a result of driving actions captured by the cameras and deemed illegal by police, according to data obtained by Gloucester Township Patch via an Open Public Records Act request.
From those 38,766 tickets, a total of 29,761 guilty pleas or verdicts had been reached as of Jan. 30, when Gloucester Township Municipal Court Administrator Patty Carroll responded to the OPRA request.
The township keeps $73.50 of every $85 fine attached to guilty pleas or verdicts reached as a result of red-light camera tickets, according to Business Administrator Tom Cardis. The remaining $11.50 is sent to the state.
Under its agreement with Arizona-based American Traffic Solutions Inc., which installed its cameras and related equipment for the township in 2010, the township pays $4,750 per camera per month, for an annual total of $570,000 for the 10 cameras.
After passing along the state's $342,251.50 share of the total $2,529,685 collected, the township still had $2,187,433.50 in revenue left over from the 29,761 tickets issued under the red-light camera program's first 17-plus months.
For July 2010 through December 2011, the township paid American Traffic Solutions $855,000 for its cameras, based on the $47,500 per month fee.
The township's final take from tickets issued through the end of 2011 stood at $1,332,433.50 as of Jan. 30, based on the information the municipal court administrator provided Patch.
Increasing traffic safety?
It does appear motorists have adjusted their driving habits as a result of the red-light cameras.
In the four-month period between July 24, 2010, when tickets were first issued from the camera system, and Nov. 29, 2010, a total of 14,844 tickets (an average of about 3,710 per month) were issued, while just 23,922 tickets were issued over the next 13 months (an average of about 1,840 per month).
As Mayer noted, the township has put up more signs warning motorists of the red-light cameras than is required under state laws governing the technology's use.
And while it would be hard for officials to deny that the potential for revenue was a consideration in green-lighting the red-light cameras, it does appear early in the five-year pilot program that the cameras have made Blackwood Clementon Road safer as officials had hoped.
The last data Patch received from the Police Department regarding crashes at the four camera-monitored intersections covered the periods of July 24-Nov. 29, 2009, and July 24-Nov. 29, 2010.
From 2009 to 2010, there was a roughly 20 percent reduction in crashes, from 55 in 2009 to 44 in 2010.
Police Chief W. Harry Earle has told residents at recent Township Council meetings that analysis is being conducted on crashes at the four camera-monitored intersections.
Not all residents are convinced the red-light cameras are making Blackwood Clementon Road safer.
Darren Gladden, who ran for Township Council as an independent candidate last year and routinely speaks during Council's bimonthly meetings, is among them.
"It's also causing accidents," Gladden said during the Jan. 23 Council meeting. "Because everybody's scared to get an $85 ticket, they're slamming on their brakes and the people behind them are smacking them."
Gladden, who admitted he's been on the receiving end of tickets from red-light cameras in South Jersey on three occasions, is also concerned flashes from the cameras at night startle unsuspecting drivers.
"Some people panic. And if you're in the middle of the road panicking after you see a flash go off, after you just paid two of these tickets, c'mon!" he said.
Tickets generated by red-light cameras are issued to vehicles' registered owners. The tickets do not carry any points against driver's licenses.
Joshua Berry
7:02 am on Saturday, February 18, 2012
Wow I didn;t realize it was that much revenue from these cameras, but a few points:
1) As I asked cuncil when the first passed this, it is a 5 year pilot program which means this could be outlawed in late 2013. How are they going to replace the $1.3 million -- increased property taxes? Call this whatever you want, a safety fine, but in the end it is still a hidden tax on the people of Gloucester Township.
2) In any data analysis you can't look a raw numbers, especially when looking at lower crashes. You have to normalize it to the number of cars on the road. I stopped taking the Blackwood-Clementon exit off of Rt 42 to Erial road because of the camera there making the right and now use the new College Drive exit when going home. How many others have reduced their time on B-C Road?
4) Have they done a study on travel speeds? The lights are so close to each other even if I wanted to, there is not enough time to get to any level of speed in front of the shopping centers. And the store fronts are so far back from the road I can't see them when driving anyway (my attention is forward so I don't crash, not to the side). You will increase business by placing visible marquees by the road, as the developer has one at KMart, not slowing traffic.
3) If safety was really the issue, the way to do this is to increase the yellow light time above the state mandated minimum? Why not add a second to each light?
Paul J. DiBartolo
8:12 am on Saturday, February 18, 2012
Aha, the yellow lights! After receiving a summons for a left turn (westerly) onto B-C Rd. from Little Gloucester Rd., I timed the light with a video camera and video editing software on my computer. The yellow light was on for approximately 2 seconds (1.92 secs). The regulations call for 1 second per 10/mph speed limit. The speed limit there on Little Gloucester Rd. is 35 mph...you do the math.
The bottom line for me is it really becomes a method to punish the citizens of Gloucester Township for slight infractions, not pausing long enough before turning, crossing the white line even though stopping, etc.
Shut up and get in line!
Uncle Jon
6:32 pm on Saturday, February 18, 2012
>1) As I asked cuncil when the first passed this, it is a 5 year pilot program which >means this could be outlawed in late 2013. How are they going to replace the $1.3 >million -- increased property taxes? Call this whatever you want, a safety fine, but >in the end it is still a hidden tax on the people of Gloucester Township.
I would guarantee that the increased revenue will not lower our property taxes, but you better believe that if its eventually outlawed, the decreased revenue will surely lead to increased property taxes!
Big Daddy 1
8:09 am on Saturday, February 18, 2012
Imaginations are running wild. The simple fact is that accident frequency is down everywhere. High Gas Prices + High Unemployment = Less Driving = Less Accidents. Every once in a while when I can afford to drive, I am not looking at stores.I am usually a little preoccupied with potholes, that tailgater that is always there, the redlight that may soon turn yellow without warning, or that hidden cop lying in wait to give me a ticket. There are cameras everywhere to watch us. Maybe some of these cameras should be focused on our politicians.
Big Daddy 1
8:13 am on Saturday, February 18, 2012
Maybe some of that money could be used to get the first page of these patch articles to print for everyone. Or maybe to fix a few potholes.
Paul J. DiBartolo
8:20 am on Saturday, February 18, 2012
What happens when a police car, not on an emergency run, gets snapped at a red light camera? You don't need to answer that.
So, here's the pink elephant in the room. Does everyone that was actually guilty of an infraction and got captured on film at a red light camera always get a ticket? If you are naive enough to think the answer to that is 'yes' I have a deal that might interest you.
Tom Miller
8:25 am on Saturday, February 18, 2012
On top of adding a another second to the yellow light time, how about adding a few more seconds between the red light and the green light. That would give the cars that do run through red lights time to get through before the opposing traffic light turns green.
Kim W.
8:26 am on Monday, February 20, 2012
Good Idea!
Big Daddy 1
8:34 am on Monday, February 20, 2012
Tom: If this was really about safety, adding some seconds would make all the sense in the world. However, that would also mean less revenue, and that's what the robo-redlights are all about.
Charles
8:03 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
Standard at every intersection I've passed through has been a 2 second delay as both directions face a redlight. This is plenty of time to clear the intersection, if you're in it.
Big Daddy 1
8:32 am on Saturday, February 18, 2012
Tom, are you proposing that it be made safer and less of a revenue stream for our township?
Paul J. DiBartolo
8:43 am on Saturday, February 18, 2012
"The theory behind that line of thinking is that alert motorists, concerned about getting a ticket for blowing a red light, will drive at lower speeds and take notice of the businesses around them." Yea, and I have a THEORY that all the residents at the Phila. Zoo are our distant relatives (that oughta get some dialog going:-)
Seriously, does anyone actually believe that? People are driving more slowly down B-C Road and all of a sudden are noticing businesses that they never knew were there before. Other than big food stores and department stores and large auto service establishments, exactly which stores are people gazing at and noticing on their leisurely Sunday drives down B-C Road? This is pure B.S.
"From those 38,766 tickets, a total of 29,761 guilty pleas or verdicts had been reached as of Jan. 30..."
Riddle me this, Batman, who paid for the time lost of the 9,005 individuals of the over 38,000 victims of this scam that needed to appear in court to prove their innocence?
Finally, how about some evidence from someone in the township as to exactly how the $1.3 million dollars of revenue affected our local real estate liabilities.
My Common Sense
11:26 am on Saturday, February 18, 2012
There comes a time when the residents (and the public as a whole) have stand up and stop the constant and never ending fees, fines and taxing from companies and goverment. Does anyone remember what happened just a few weeks ago when Verizon wanted to charge customers $2.00 to pay thier bill electronicly? Enough people complained and they retracted within days. Enough B.S. about slowing traffic down to look at the empty shopping ctr. on b.c. road. Vote the mayor and counsle OUT! What are they doing with all the income anyway?
Jim
1:22 pm on Saturday, February 18, 2012
The cameras (indirectly) block emergency vehicles - because cars stopped at a camera hesitate to get out of the way! Other side effects: Rearenders, local $$$ sent to Oz, AZ or Goldman-Sachs, where it won't come back, and tourists and shoppers driven away.
Worse, a false expectation of safety, because cameras can't stop the real late runners, who cause the accidents. (If cameras worked, camera sellers wouldn't have the crash videos they supply to the media.)
Want safety, no side effects?
To cut car/pedestrian accidents, train your kids (and yourself) not to step out just 'cuz the walk sign came on.
To cut nuisance running (a fraction of a second late), lengthen the yellows. It's cheap to do so can be done all over town.
The dangerous real late (multiple seconds) runs won't be stopped by the mere presence of a camera, because the runner won't know (a tourist) or won't remember (a distracted or impaired "local") that there's a camera up ahead. They're not doing it on purpose! To cut these real late runs, improve the visual cues that say, "Intersection ahead." Florida's DOT found that better pavement markings (paint!) cut running by up to 74%. Make the signal lights bigger, add backboards, and put the poles on the NEAR side of the corner. Put brighter bulbs in the street lights at intersections. Put up lighted name signs for the cross streets.
Who needs cameras and their side effects?
Charles
1:55 pm on Saturday, February 18, 2012
Hate to buck the tide, but I think the cameras are OK.I was caught by one, received a notice and did not pay a fine because it happened during the "Warning Period", before fines were assessed. It did make me think about the intersection and become more alert to the situation. I use this intersection every day and think they have a beneficial effect of traffic. The few instances when a ticket is issued "in error" (the driver goes to court and wins), do not offset the positives of the cameras. I'm glad there has been an increase in revenue from the summons issued! That means more money for police work and NO increase in taxes for me! Sure, the "excuse" that drivers will slow down and notice businesses is pure political BS. Better signage for the deep-set buildings would be better, but the pol's always try to justify EVERYTHING as a benefit to children or business. [But that's a topic for another blog.]
Paul J. DiBartolo
6:59 pm on Saturday, February 18, 2012
Who should pay one's time lost (from work) when one is required to appear in court to fight a ticket issued "in error?" Additionally, a gentleman took the mike at council meeting and said his wife was slowing for a right turn onto Erial Rd. from B-C Road and the light turned yellow so she stopped abruptly for fear of transgressing the 'right turn on red.' Unfortunately she was just past the white line and received a ticket. I don't have a problem imagining that scenario so I have no doubt that he described the incident correctly. I think that the technician and officer observing the film could see that if they cared. Do I believe the technician has a vested interest in the ticket being issued? Do I believe the officer observing the film did not really care to spend that much time on it? Yes, to both questions. I think that it's been stated already, most of the tickets are being issued to people who have no real intent to break the law but get caught in the details. Could the township be tweaking the yellow lights? According to my (scientifically) collected data, yes! No matter how this is looked at it's a raw deal for the otherwise law abiding citizens using these roads.
Schu
2:53 pm on Saturday, February 18, 2012
The bottom line is the almighty dollar, complain all you want, as long as the money is coming in, nothing will change.
njmom
3:12 pm on Saturday, February 18, 2012
For those that have received a ticket in the mail, did you notice that it was delivered to you within a few days of the due date or even after the due date? This happened to me and heard from someone else that they received one after the due date. So they get you for the ticket and pentalies. Also, I am sure if an off duty officer got a camera ticket for violating, they would get out of it.
Charles
3:18 pm on Saturday, February 18, 2012
Do you think such a person would get a ticket from another officer, even if personally observed?
How did you follow-up on the "after due date" ticket?
GTWatchdawg
3:29 pm on Saturday, February 18, 2012
Just ponder this question. Are 10 cameras needed for these 4 intersections??
Schu, you are correct. They money flow shall dictate the red light camera longevity.
ATS is the county's version of GT's R&V. It's only a matter of time before they start "giving back".
Uncle Jon
3:52 pm on Saturday, February 18, 2012
Wow, make everyone slow down so they can admire the vacant and boarded up businesses along B-C Road. Great government!
Darren Gladden
6:18 pm on Saturday, February 18, 2012
For July 2010 through December 2011, the township paid American Traffic Solutions $855,000 for its cameras, based on the $47,500 per month fee.
I would love to sit down and talk to American Traffic Solutions owners , but our town does not do bussiness with local people . Why is that .
http://youtu.be/XF2ayWcJfxo
Andre Bademos
11:16 am on Monday, February 20, 2012
Gladden, I have read you nonsense for a few weeks now about this. You seem to want it both ways. You say you want safety for your children yet you violate the law not one time but now three times that you admit too. After the first ticket why not start to obey the law? Laws were meant to be obeyed you didn’t that is why you received not one but now three fines.
As a man with children I believe the fines should be progressive just like speeding and other moving violations. Too bad the ticket goes to the vehicle owner and not the person driving. Too bad there are no points because after three times of breaking the law maybe the person you’re getting tickets for would STOP LETTING YOU USE THEIR CAR! Had you been ticketed by a police officer they each impose a 2 point violation and you would have had your driver’s license suspended. You are a habitual law breaker there is no excuse for you that anyone except your little click group that complains about everything mayor and council does would ever listen too. Start obeying the law.
Darren Gladden
12:35 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
Thank you Andre for taking me on and my non sense but Andre I have COMMON sense maybe you are lacking in that deptmart .Now don't judge me and I will not judge you . Is it breaking the law to STEAL PEOPLES hard earn money because they were taught to learn to drive another way then all the mother HENS on the road . Do you know how many old people got tickets and had to PAY UP . Do you even care about them you SELFISH person . Do you care about people LIVING PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK trying to FEED there YOUNG that have to pay up . Get a Clue there please and start thinking about other people beside your selfish ways .....Just care , I do AND PLEASE WAKE UPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!
http://youtu.be/iJgxJ6JrPkc
Andre Bademos
1:23 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
Gladden, you are a self described criminal, you should be thankful you have gotten away without paying the proper restitution for your crimes by not actually being summons on the spot you saved your license, be thankful. Allowing people like you who have no regard for the law endangers law abiding citizens like me. You are the prime reason we all pay more for our police department taxes then we need to. Our Police department must employ more cops because people like you have so little respect for the laws then you have the Gaul to complain you got caught BREAKING THE LAW, instead of attempting to abide by the law like normal rational people do.
How can you actually chastise the police because they try to best of their ability to protect law abiding citizens from people like you who admit to breaking the law just because you find the law to be nothing more than a nuisance?
I have to wonder: If someone robbed your house and was only caught because of a red light camera, would you parade up to council and defend their right to rob you two more times since the red light cameras aided in their apprehension? It is mentality like yours that should be used to make sure more cameras are installed in our town personally I don't think the police watch people like you close enough. You are a self described criminal and if you don't want to pay fines here is a thought: STOP BREAKING THE LAW!!!!
Darren Gladden
4:02 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
Wow , Hey Chief come lock me up and throw away the key . Okay so if we elect someone into office the can break any kind of law they want Right Andre the mayor has broken the LAW and he laughs right at us everyday . I bet you VOTED HIM AND HIS COUNCIL TEAM in . Please get a clue if you are scared so much GET A dog . Now if someone robs my house they better hope I call the COPS and just not go out looking for them myself witch is what I would DO . I don't need people fighting my battles . Now the red light CAMS is a scam to take more money out of PEOPLE pockets . Just ask a couple of COPS that know me . Hey a lot of those BOYS in blue help make me the man ,I am today . Get a clue I'm done with you for today . I have to go clean the Bathrooms ....
Andre Bademos
4:42 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
Gladden,
Not sure which law you’re alluding to that you claim he broke. You keep saying he broke law but refuse to name the ordinance. Was he charged? Do you know what a citizen’s complaint is? Why not file a complaint yourself? Is it because he is your boss and according to you your only election funding source. Is that why you don’t file the charges you don’t want to lose your only election fund contributor or is it your job with the municipality you’re afraid to lose? You keep telling us you care but what is it you really care about? Obviously it’s not our town’s laws or you would not keep breaking them, so it must be your election fund and your political hack job. Start obeying the law and maybe you can keep more of your wife’s income in your home instead of personally attempting to finance another red-light camera with all your violations.
Big Daddy 1
6:29 pm on Saturday, February 18, 2012
Darren: I will take a stab at why our township doesn't do business with local people. Would it have anything to do with the fact that the political bosses do not live here? Or maybe the rich payers don't live here either?
Big Daddy 1
6:56 pm on Saturday, February 18, 2012
Raise Taxes? There has always been an easy answer to that question - reduce those outragious benefits that noboby else has.
Schu
8:56 pm on Saturday, February 18, 2012
Don't hold your breath for that to happen. Need to clean house the council and mayor's office and negotiate the government contracts and BOE contracts for real savings. Otherwise, taxes will always rise and this idea of a county police force will certainly increase taxes. GT is the piggy bank for Camden City.
Red Light Doctor
8:28 pm on Saturday, February 18, 2012
Nothing was mentioned regarding the top three causes of red light violations? Unless these causes are addressed there is no viable solution. One might also read the camera vendor contracts only to discover the word "safety" never appears and accident reduction milestones are noticeably absent. Camera vendors verbally embrace safety, but hide behind it when writting their contracts.
Paul J. DiBartolo
10:27 am on Monday, February 20, 2012
Here's a quick glimpse into the future: San Francisco, the proud owner of the title "Highest Red Light Camera Fines in the Country," nails its victims $425 for a red light transgression.
Hey Charles, you stated up above that you were issued a warning and have since obeyed the lights so you were okay with them, how would you feel if you had not stopped long enough and received a $500 ticket? Don't make a mistake because you're being watched and $85 is just the start.
Charles
10:45 am on Monday, February 20, 2012
I did "run the light"; however, the warning period saved the fine.
Sorry, but I can't imagine using San Fran' as any kind of example. Nothing there seems "Normal", even traffic enforcement. As the fines are set by local ordinance, the victims (voters, some) can take away the power of the pol's to inflict 'unreasonable' pain in the wallet.
I still feel that the cameras can be a responsible tool.
If too many people are "inconvenienced" by day courts, it is OK to have court in the evening. Instead of complaining, people need to take action. I wonder if a petition might be worthwhile.
Paul J. DiBartolo
4:42 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
I think you missed my point, Charles. Let me make it simpler; when you get caught in a simple infraction - let's say the light turns yellow and you are unsure for a second what to do and then you decide to stop but you've already passed the white line so your picture gets snapped when the light goes red - let me know so I can revel with you in the fact that you agree with the whole red light camera thing because of all the criminals it takes off the street.
Darren Gladden
1:26 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
Hey Patch peeps , The MAYOR and his council team would like to send this song out to you " scared money don't make no money " As a taxpayer and FINE PAYER in this Great state of New Jersey the question I would like to KNOW is, Why ARE we sending close to a Million to a company in Arizona . That money will NEVER comeback . WoW what do you think we can do with 850,000 dollars . We could clean up our PARKS and Fields , Maybe even fix a couple of POTHOLES or 2 . Hey by the way Dave "I got 11 Jobs and I don't care if you don't have one" Carlamere Hi, How are you doing SIR ........... Just care , I do
http://youtu.be/qMxX-QOV9tI
Reply
Andre Bademos
2:02 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
Mr. Gladden I was just asking Krystal a couple questions and found out that you work for Dave Mayor. What kind of scam are you running over there? You want to know why the municipality uses a company in Arizona to catch criminals like you who admit to violating our state laws and then we find out you work for the municipality as an appointed public figure. She told me you have fought against pay to play so I would think you should be happy the municipality uses an out of state company that would not benefit from kicking money back for elections. Then I find out you ran for office and was supported by the democrats and that you accepted an open appointment to work for Gloucester Township? That’s pretty messed up!
Charles
1:33 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
Since that 850,000 was the company's share of the "take" from the cameras, None of it would be available for local uses anyhow. I guess you and all the other red light violators will have to make a donation to Parks and Rec' so the money will "stay here" for local projects. (But then, you'd have to admit guilt also...)
Joshua Berry
5:35 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
Everyone, please calm down. This is not about individuals but the issue. If you support red light cameras good for you, but please do not attack it's critics personally.
For the record Mr. Gladden is NOT an employee nor does he have an "appointment". During a council meeting when he was asking about the Field of Dreams project, Mayor Mayer spontaneously added him to the volunteer committee to drive the project because it was something Mr. Gladden was visibly passionate about. Maybe I am naive, but why would anyone criticize a fellow resident for volunteering on a project to build a baseball field for disabled kids?
Please, if you have an opinion on the cameras -- for or against -- please express them here as adults. Intellectually honest debate is one of the cornerstones of our society.
Stop the personal attacks and name calling.
Paul J. DiBartolo
6:43 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
Always the voice of reason.
Darren Gladden
6:52 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
Relax PAUL , Now Berry let them name call all they want . It help sells there B.S. .........Just care , I do
http://youtu.be/E2VCwBzGdPM
Andre Bademos
7:00 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
Crystal told me the big protector (Berry) would be here to defend Gladden. Guess I will learn the players here soon enough. Seems you all sincerely love to defend each other to the nines. Since you decided to defend the criminal maybe you can explain to us how someone who decides to ignore the laws received your backing to run for council? More importantly Crystal told me how you are really working for the democrats to get this Pay to Play ban passed so that they can legally accept donations from sources that do not have to disclose their donor list. That’s why she dumped your group. Is that why they paid for Gladden's election and why you suddenly withdrew your groups support for your dear friend? I see Gladden got his promised political payoff job and your group gets it Pay to Play ban despite your petitions being a year old. What do the residents of GT get? GT Republicans doing the work of the democrats, how surprising? NOT! Thanks to The GT republicans selling out we (the residents of GT) can't even tell who is donating. Your organization of Republican castaways has been played like a fiddle, do all the work, get all the signatures, take all the responsibility, and elevate all the backlash from the democrats for banning Pay to Play and our rights to know who donates to elections. Great job! I bet they go through the motions on council then approve your bill. Now the rest of us want to know what you’re getting out of this, Ok we (the residents) will know soon enough.
Joshua Berry
7:47 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
http://gloucestertownship.patch.com/blog_posts/the-radicals-blog-the-berry-stratagem
There is an old saying I have been teaching members of South Jersey Citizens. In its original Spanish it is “El ladrón juzga por su condición.” In English it is translated “The thief thinks everyone steals.” The thief—being someone untrustworthy—assumes that everyone else is like them and thus believes they will try to steal from him.
If you have something specific to discuss on red light cameras the adults in the room will be more than happy to have the debate. Maybe we can come up with a compromise that makes everyone satisfied such as increasing the yellow light timings for true safety while keeping the cameras for people running the light.
You can stop tilting at windmills now. You have a new screen name but your pattern of looking over the next mound for corrupt giants to slay remains the same. Not everyone has the same malice in their heart that you do. The thief thinks everyone steals, and Don Quixote was thought a fool.
Darren Gladden
8:56 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
OMG do you think Berry is my protector. You are clueless ........hahaha
Paul J. DiBartolo
7:56 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
Hey Andre, when you get time would you mind posting an interpretation of your rant. I'd really like to know what you're talking about. Seriously, do YOU have any idea?
Jack Straw
8:55 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
I will run it through my anti-obfuscation, reverse-political-dissembling, logical-fallacy-detecting software and let you know what it means.
Darren Gladden
8:50 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
Gladden's election ...Let's say this it is not my election it is THE PEOPLE of Gloucester Township Election . The people who truely know me understand I do things for other more then I would do for myself . So you government cronies that just lies and lies some more hopeing something stick . Understand this the truth will set your FREE ....Just care , I do
http://youtu.be/0K2k19IiTaY
Andre Bademos
10:07 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
Amazing 5 people actually the same 5 people that are not afraid to post since they are the 5 bullies of the patch, twist the truth mislead the people but you still make no sense. Crystal told me all about you 5. She told me how you used her and tossed her to the curb she also said some guy from the RNC would attach me too some watchdog guy I guess I will see his wrath next.
All that said still does not change the fact you did the work for the Democrats and then sold out for jobs, and none of it changes the fact that Gladden (your puppet) now has a political payback job for allowing himself to be your spoiler in the council race. Next we the residence will see if Crystal is right when we see what payback jobs you get for your cronies.
Big Daddy 1
10:23 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TVz7MiFhAk&feature=player_embedded
Silence Dogood
10:36 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
Okay, this fellow Gladden is an odd duck and a bit boisterous but if you are saying he now has a job in the Mayer administration we should examine a few more members of the machine in and around Gloucester Township. Facts are facts.
Let’s meet a few of the actual appointees from the GT Democrat machine. Starting with David Carlamere:
a) Mayor Dave Mayer's lawyer in Gloucester Twp.
b) Planning & Zoning Solicitor in Runnemede
c) Planning & Zoning Solicitor in Pine Hill
d) Planning & Zoning in Berlin Twp. (in which Chris Morris is Council President; Deputy for Camden County; Treasure for the Camden County Democrats)
e) Planning & Zoning in Somerdale
f) Solicitor Fire District in Pine Hill
Andre Bademos
7:41 am on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
So are you saying that the current mayor should have replaced the previous mayor’s appointments? Is that because the previous mayor was to incompetent to make sure her appointments were qualified or just because in your mind it is to taboo to keep a holdover appointment just because he was originally appointed by Republican Mayor Cindy Rau Hatton, a mayor the voters deemed incompetent?
Just remember when the new Governor comes in under your demands you will be looking for new employment yourself as that DMV post is a governors appointment.
Silence Dogood
8:10 am on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Unlike you I stated facts and will let them speak for themselves. No need for spin or silly interpretations to mislead the other readers. As to your point regarding former Mayor Hatton’s incompetent appointments (as you referred to them); she never changed any appointments from her predecessor Mayor Sandy Love. So you are calling former Mayor Love incompetent. I merely posted the facts as they appear in public documents. Further, as you attempted to link me to having a politically appointed position at the DMV, sorry to disappoint you but I have no such job. That is a political job appointed by the Governor, as the current Governor is a Republican it would make sense that those people were appointed based on that criteria. It also is true that under the former Governor who was a Democrat those positions will change with a new administration.
For someone who claims to be new to all of this and not sure who all the “players” happen to be, you sure do drop a lot of names in your posts. You also like to attack people personally and act the bully. Shame on you for trying to scare people from having an opinion that is different from your own or those you support.
Silence Dogood
10:37 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
g) Also the Fire District lawyer in GT Fire Districts 1, 2, 4, 5, 6 (there are only 6 fire districts-----the lawyer for fire district 3 is John Kennedy; now Jack is also the prosecutor in Gloucester Twp. and the solicitor in Runnemede AND Jack’s law partner Len Wood is the labor council in Runnemede AND the Brooklawn school board solicitor ...got it...did you get all of this?!?! But wait there is even more from this law firm of Wade, Long, Wood & Kennedy; John Wade is the lawyer for the Gloucester Twp. school district and Black Horse Pike Regional School District. Howard Long is the MUA lawyer for Gloucester Twp. and also the Voorhees Twp. solicitor.....PLUS Howard Long is also the prosecutor for Magnolia, Brooklawn and Lindenwold. If you need a lawyer contact Wade, Long, Wood and Kennedy…..their law offices are located right across from the Gloucester Twp. Municipal Building
Camden County Freeholder Rodney Greco is the IT director for the Gloucester Twp. School District also former GT Councilman.
Silence Dogood
10:38 pm on Monday, February 20, 2012
What is also interesting is Mr. Carlemere’s wife is the Chair of the Gloucester Twp. Housing Authority. Cynthia M. Carlamere. The Vice Chair is Stephen Piccolo. Any relation to the head of GT Democrat Party that is being investigated by the FBI? The Treasurer is Charles Bucceroni, is he related to the VP of BHPRSD BOE and new GEMS Trustee Kevin Bucceroni? And finally Commissioner William Fontanez. He is the undersheriff in the Sheriff's Department and drives his county paid vehicle funded by taxpayers to GTHA meetings.
Dave Bakely, Gloucester Township's Plumbing SubCode Official is making $97,628! His total salary (as of 2010) for his 8 jobs is $137,216! How does he work in GT for $97, 628 and find time for 7 other jobs!!!!!
So if you are saying Gladden is part of this, so be it but this is only the tip of the iceberg of machine appointees.
Darren Gladden
2:46 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Well Gladden can state on his own , I'm out of work for over 2 years now raising my sons , but would love to get back to work ASAP . See what got me started in giving people the truth about this rag tag group that leads us today is because of Congress Rob Andrews . Since he does not do his job I lost my job like so many other people in this walfare state we are in today . Hey Mayor if you feel like I fit in with you peeps Hire me to run Public Works, cause you know for a fact our PW Leader is in way over his head ................................Just care , I do
Darren Gladden
4:54 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
P.S. I like being the Odd Duck ..........I quack and waddle to my own Beat .
http://youtu.be/JUfNIcUmFPE
Big Daddy 1
8:27 am on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Great posts Silence Dogood. Most of those are lawyers or the politically connected. And they can leech into pensions and other benefits for part time or occasional jobs in all of those municipalities. Where else can this happen but in our own governments. There is nothing remotely comparable in the real world. No wonder our taxes are so high. Where are the proposals to cut these costs?
path
7:41 am on Monday, February 27, 2012
I will no longer use blackwood- clementon rd nor will I shop the stores there
path
7:43 am on Monday, February 27, 2012
I will not travel or shop at stores along blackwood clementon rd., because I do not need the headaches or possibly pay more to this township, they get enough. Where does all the revenue go ?
Darren Gladden
6:03 pm on Wednesday, February 29, 2012
Well Path we are working on that answer and many more info , Just find out that they are set up to give OUT speeding tickets WOW . So if anybody wants to jump on the team and show your Dislike about these cams feel free to hit me up on Facebook or my email gladdonski@yahoo.com and stop this GREEDY madness ........
http://youtu.be/WpYeekQkAdc
Paul J. DiBartolo
9:14 am on Thursday, March 1, 2012
Has anyone OPRA'd the contracts yet? I know I should do this but I don't want to reinvent the wheel if someone has already done it.
Unfortunately, the thing that neuters us in this fight is the time required to do this stuff when one has other pressing responsibilities. I know...whine, whine, whine!
ymbdfa
10:04 am on Thursday, March 15, 2012
Paul does that mean you’re too lazy to actually find out the truth or are you afraid to find out the truth because like at the council meeting Monday night when you made your comment Councilman Mercado and the police chief told you and all of us the truth about your erratic driving and you were forced to put your tail between your legs and waddle back to your seat. See intentionally refusing to find out the truth or avoiding it for political reasons shows all you want to do is argue not make things better. Try understanding what your complaining about and maybe you won’t have any more youtube moments of embarrassment like you did in the council meeting Monday night, And trust us if you think that won't be a youtube moment you’re a bit jaded.
Paul J. DiBartolo
10:36 am on Thursday, March 15, 2012
At it again, huh, Yamby? What caused you to crawl out of the wall this time? I've asked before if you would please post an interpretation along with your comments so we can all possibly understand what you are saying.
Big Daddy 1
9:28 am on Thursday, March 1, 2012
I haven't requested the contracts. Too busy wasting time with other government agencies and issues. Great idea. I think we would all like to know what lurks in those contracts.
Kalena Ross
11:29 am on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
Said it before and I will say it again, driving is a privilege not a right. the cameras go off when you violate a law. Once again not one word of follow up even after the Chief explained how they work at the meeting. Stir stir stir your pot but don't bother to worry about people who have run red lights or ignored the laws who are now finally getting hauled into court in our township. Maybe you guys could all go pack up and buy an island and make your own laws I think Mr Rourke vacated his place.
Paul J. DiBartolo
11:35 am on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
Well, if you said it I guess that ends all argument on the subject. Is it a right or a privilege to own a dog? How about a gun? Do I have a right to get married or is that a privilege that the state extends to me?
The explanation that was lacking was why some people get red light camera tickets and others don't for the same actions. I wouldn't want you to worry your pretty little head about that though so just keep parroting the stated mantra of whomever it is for whom you are fronting.
Charles
8:17 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
Kalena: Notice how Paul takes your argument and runs crazy with it. This is a common way of dealing with something for which you (or he) have no rational response. Your comment really didn't try to address Paul's issues; therefore, he may be trying to mislead the readers.
N/A
10:22 am on Thursday, March 15, 2012
Paul it’s a right and a privilege to own a dog and a gun and if you beat your dog or go randomly shooting people and you get caught you will go to jail and lose those rights and privileges. It’s your right and privilege to get married if you beat your wife or husband and they press charges you could go to jail get fined and even get divorced.
It's your right to drive and if you break the law like you have, it’s my right to have safe roads to drive or walk on and thank god our police force keeps us safe from drivers like you who do not believe they should be forced to follow the laws of our state.
I've have stated before and will again if you don't follow the law I do not believe red light cameras go far enough in making sure you drive safely. They should carry points just like as if a police officer pulled you over. It is the owner of the vehicles responsibility to make sure a responsible driver uses their car, if the camera cannot identify who was driving the vehicle the owner should receive the points as they allowed an irresponsible driver to use their car.
If you give your keys to someone and they go out drinking and drive drunk and kill someone the owner can be charged as well as the actual driver with a DWI and possibly manslaughter as well they can be sued. The red light tickets should be no different. People like Gladden make the best argument that type of enforcement is needed.
Paul J. DiBartolo
10:43 am on Thursday, March 15, 2012
Sorry, N/A, you can't have it both ways...
"...it’s a right and a privilege to own a dog and a gun..."
"It’s your right and privilege to get married..."
It's either a right or a privilege; now, which is it? Webster would probably go a long way in helping you understand the difference.
BTW, if you knew anything about the Law of the Land, some people call it the Constitution, you'd know that it is our right to bear arms. A right should never be confused with a privilege that the state extends to me as if it wasn't mine already. The fact that the State is encroaching on our rights is part of a much bigger problem.
Big Daddy 1
12:02 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
The only people that say all these licensed activities are priveledges are governments and insurance companies. It's all about the money. Why don't we put it on the ballot, right next to Pay to Play?
Kalena Ross
1:25 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
My pretty little head? Is that because I'm a girl Paul? Awfully chauvinistic of you. The Chief explained it pretty clearly, they don't go off when it's yellow or when you're in the box and it's yellow. They go off when you go through the intersection and your light is red. My 6th grader understands how they work because when he didn't like a smart kid he looked it up and read this article, why don't you take his cue http://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-driving-safety/safety-regulatory-devices/red-light-camera1.htm
If you were truly worried about how they worked did you make an appointment to sit down with the Chief to ask? I doubt it. Did you write a letter to ask? Doubt it. Instead you got up and screamed about it at a meeting. Part of living here is being responsible and not irritating your neighbors.
Paul J. DiBartolo
3:47 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
I have no desire to trade barbs with you, whomever you are (BTW, I don't know if you're a girl - hmmmmm, I'd think you would use the word 'woman' - or not because I don't know if your name is real. I do not know who you are nor do I care. The use of pretty little head is a cliche and could be used to refer to anyone. Maybe your sixth grader can clear that up for you). Anyway, if you don't like what citizens have to say at council meetings then just stay home and do us all a favor.
BTW, if you'd bothered to listen you'd know that I didn't ask if the cameras snapped under a yellow light. The question regarded stopping short under a yellow light and over-running the white line and then the possibility of the camera snapping when the light goes red because the car was in the violation zone. Try to keep up, Kalena. Now, please ask you sixth grader to explain to you why a gentlemen two months ago at the microphone stated that his wife stopped short on a right turn after the light went yellow but had transgressed the white line and received a red light traffic ticket. Give it a rest, Kalena...at least until you know the facts and what you're talking about.
Big Daddy 1
4:33 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
Question: What happens if I enter the intersection while the light is yellow and it turns red while I am in the middle of it (like 2-3 seconds later)?
Charles
8:20 pm on Wednesday, March 14, 2012
I have done exactly that at the same intersection where I was "caught" earlier. The answer is, "Nothing!"
Michael Clinton
12:24 pm on Thursday, April 19, 2012
Same here. I used to get off 42 at Blk-clem Road and do a lot of shopping on that strip. I will never use that exit again and they will never get another dime from me and I've warned everyone in our development to sat off that road.