Can you please tell me why it was illegal?

Linda: Some Republicans contended the appointment came too late following Michelle Gentek's resignation as a Council member: http://patch.com/A-1QZt

I assume that's what "Me" was referring to, not the actual swearing-in ceremony.

Pesky things laws are sometimes...

It makes you wonder how inexperienced the other three candidates were. Let's hope she uses her "leadership" background to good use.

Don't you think we should at least giver her a chance before we judge her? Come on Paul, you are better than that!

Yea if she puts a STOP to buying the APC and get's the Field of Dreams built this year and she promises not to be on Dave's team and be herself ... She will show me a Lot .......Now settle down Mrs. Green don't want me stalking you around the shop rite again ;-)

Actually, Michelle, I can't find any statement I made that actually stands in judgment of Ms. Winters. I asked some hard questions and I repeated some factual statements from the story and made some criticisms of the process...but judging her...I don't think so. People are sometimes way too sensitive around here. What it does point out is the fact that many are ignorant of how the political process has worked in America for 200 years. If someone wants to run with the big boys and girls they're gonna have to get their big-boy/girl pants on and face the music.

Crone added at around 9 p.m. 2/26: Gentek resigned as of 1/1/2013. Winters name forwarded on 2/8/2013 and not sworn in until 2/25/2013. It is the position of the CCGOP and GTRMC that the Gloucester Township council seat vacated by Michelle Gentek is and should remain open because the 30 day deadline was missed by the Democrats and the council.

Thanks, Sean.

Hey Crone, if you pursue this issue on that technicality, you may or may not win the battle. But, in my opinion, you will look like petty, obstructionist fools in the process.

Sean I am curious about something, you refer to Tom Crone is a CCGOP spokesman? Is he a self appointed spokesman or was he appointed to the CCGOP? I do not see his name on the official list of Republican County Committee people, nor do I see his name even on the Gloucester Township county Committee people. Please explain why you give him credibility as a CCGOP member?

Also correct me if I am wrong but there were no council meeting between the time of the names being due and the time they were made public. Do you or Mr. Crone have documentation proving the names were not turned over prior to the disclosure at the next public meeting? Also exactly what rule under Faulkner states if the committee does not submit names timely that the seat would remain vacant for the rest of the term? I do see a rule that says if the controlling committee does not submit names that council has the right to fill the seat with someone of its choosing but nothing states the seat shall remain vacant for the remainder of the unexpired term. Please clarify.

Seems this Crone character along with his ally Mr. Berry have a long history of harassing Mr. Carlamere and his wife. Is this another unnecessary baseless political stunt the tax payers of Gloucester Township will be forced to pay for?

Tom Crone is a CCGOP spokesman, and, in fact, their political director.

Mr. Crone has provided a copy of an email he obtained, from GT Democrat Committee chairman Kevin Piccolo to Council President Bianchini, dated Feb. 8 that has the list of four recommendations.

As for your final question: That's up to you and others to decide. I'm just reporting that the GOP thinks rules weren't followed in Michelle Winters' appointment. If you disagree, well, you're going to have to take that up with them.

I'm not sure what you meant by "documentation proving the names were not turned over prior to the disclosure at the next public meeting." I don't think Mr. Crone has contended the names weren't disclosed in a timely manner. I think the contention is the four names weren't provided by Mr. Piccolo to Council in a timely fashion.

40A:16-11. Appointment to fill vacancy where incumbent was nominee of a political party; time to fill vacancy. If the incumbent whose office has become vacant was elected to office as the nominee of a political party, the municipal committee of the political party of which the incumbent was the nominee shall, no later than 15 days after the occurrence of the vacancy, present to the governing body the names of three nominees for the selection of a successor to fill the vacancy. The governing body shall, within 30 days after the occurrence of the vacancy, appoint one of the nominees as the successor to fill the vacancy. If the governing body fails to appoint one of the nominees within the time prescribed herein, the municipal committee that named the three nominees shall, within the next 15 days, appoint one of the nominees as the successor to fill the vacancy, and such person shall be sworn in immediately. If the municipal committee which nominated the incumbent fails to submit the names of the nominees within the time prescribed herein, the governing body may, within the next 15 days, fill the vacancy by the appointment of a successor from the same political party which had nominated the incumbent whose office has become vacant.

If, on the effective date of this act, the governing body had previously received from the municipal committee the names of three nominees to fill any such vacancy and had not filled the vacancy, the governing body, within 30 days after the effective date of this act, shall appoint one of the nominees as the successor to fill the vacancy.

That's the statute Mr. Crone pointed to the night Council approved Mrs. Winters as Michelle Gentek's replacement. Sorry it had to be chopped up. Even I'm bound by character limits when leaving a comment on Patch. Good day.

40A:16-13. Failure of governing body to fill vacancy in membership of governing body. If a governing body shall fail or decline to fill a vacancy in the membership of the governing body by appointment as provided in N.J.S.40A:16-4 or 40A:16-5 within the time prescribed by N.J.S.40A:16-12, the office shall remain vacant for the remainder of the term or until the election and qualification of a successor, as the case may be.

This song for you http://youtu.be/9jK-NcRmVcw Enjoy your next Journey .....JCID

So at best case scenario if we are to believe these timelines as accurate and I have no reason to doubt them. Then the appointment would have reverted back to the Gloucester Township Democrats and as the appointment date was officially ceremonially achieved on Feb 11, 2013. The Democratic Party would have still appointed Ms Winters and would have had the appointment power since council failed to act timely. Again this is all semantics as either was Ms Winters was officially appointed without dispute on 2/11/13. She was chosen by the democrats and able to be appointed by them at that time which she was. The mayor of the town is the De Facto chairman of the Democratic Party by virtue of being Mayor elected as a democrat. The council is all democrats and De Facto members of the Democratic Party by virtue of being elected as democrats. Either way you look at it she was appointed by democrats, chosen by democrats and instilled by democrats within the 45 days if all your 15 day periods are correct. Let’s not cost the tax payers money on a goose chase in semantics.

That argument would have held true if the GT Democrats had submitted their list to Council by January 16th. If they had and Council failed to appoint one of them by January 31st then the party would have had until Feb 15th to make the appointment.

The argument fails on two fronts: 1) the party failed to submit the names by Jan 16th (the facts here are Feb 8th), and 2) assuming the party sent the list in on time the party would have had to appoint someone by Feb 15th. According to all available information all they did was send a list of 4 people on Feb 8th. That is not an appointment. The Council chose Mrs. Winters on the 11th, not the party. The party would have had to formally notify council by Feb. 15 of their sole appointment. To be best of my knowledge this did not happen. Even if it did, it was irrelevant because the Democrat party did not meet the 15 day deadline. In addition they sent 4 names, not the required 3.

Either way you and I bickering over legal details is academic. While I know Council members will read this they are not going to take any kind of action until forced by the courts. As entertaining as going back and forth with on this may be I am not going to keep arguing. I'll let the commentors here weigh in on their opinions.

Stashes minion I agree lets let the courts handle it, lets let the tax payers pay for it, and for what? If you win, one seat is left open until the next election the panel will still be 6 democrats 0 republicans. Does that make you feel better that the poeple have 1 less voice to express an opinion, seriously? Yep the republican way less voices less people to object to their radical agenda.

Maybe you should start finding people with positive outlooks to run on your Republican ticket. Give the people a real choice instead of guy who can't talk or write a complete sentence or that the same retread rejected Realtor you put on the ticket year after year. What is this 4 elections she got slammed in now? Wanna go for 5?

Okay just saw this ......... HELLO we know you are FAKE and since you are trying real HARD to scare me ."Not going to work " and STATING you are stalking ME cause you do know me . You need HELP ...............LOVE how you assume and get all work up. Now Will the Mrs Green AKA the one I was stalking and remmeber if you READ IT right Winner I did not add an E .......Patch Green writter Stand up and make this Fake one understand how MUCH OF a stalker this one is .. SMH ..Susan Greene and by the way as you are stalking me cause you KNOW me ......Do I look better from the back or leading from the FRONT. You are clueless .. ...........Just care , I do ...PS maybe you and Drama D can dance to this song together http://youtu.be/WqPR0ltgwpU ..It's not about me ...........

Darren, read slowly, I asked you if I was the Mrs. Green you were referring to when you said you were stalking her at shop rite. I gave you the opportunity to say yes or no. You replied by saying it wasn't me it was ANOTHER MRS GREEN YOU WERE STALKING. I guess I am relieved that it's not me but the poor other Mrs. Green with or without the e on the end of her name, in your words you are stalking her. How and why would you stalk anyone regardless of what their name is.
Yes, I do know you from the council meetings you attend and your picture you post on Patch next to your name Einstein. STALKING IS ILLEGAL !!!!! and yet you admitted it how many times on Patch , on record? Way to late to try to clean this one up. BTW, your best look is in a orange jumpsuit and handcuffs...

Okay send GT with there new APC to come and get me , I made a joke to a friend on HERE should of never done that ....... I'm so wrong , I need to lose everything in LIFE cause I will not drink the Dave Team's KOOL AID .......... Susan should we not be screening Phone calls right now for everyone to call up DAve and shroke his EGO ..........Please call me and I would like to ask Dave is this his Campaign song http://youtu.be/J-W-a7ZLpFs JCID "we are on a Mission "

Need change not really sure why, no tax increases, services are more efficient then ever, Police have more officers, more cars and more training then ever before, trash and snow removal have been at an unprecedented low cost. We have actually implemented the solar power plan the Republicans claimed would not be possible. Our schools have new roofs the republicans claimed we could not afford, we have recycling turning huge profits and our taxes have not gone up in 4 years now since the republicans left office.

Change you claim we need change? I'm not one that looks forward to the possibility of going back in time to the only for the rich republican party with the 23% 22% and 14 % tax increases year after year. Sometimes staus quo is the right thing and I for one agree with the voters who represent this community they choose change last mayoral election and it has been a wonderful 4 years. I am looking forward to the next 4 years and I have to say if there is anything I can do to make sure this Mayor stays in office just ask you have my support.

Ummmm, let's see if I can at least juxtapose a few things against the glowing report you give of GT...
We are planning on spending $277,000 for an armored vehicle which a lot of people have questioned...questions about such at Township Council meetings are basically ignored...
Our real estate taxes, regardless of whether they've gone up, are already through the roof...
We charge $21 for a dog licensee and $15 as a penalty if you miss the deadline (a colleague at work told me his town charges $8 and a $4 penalty)...
We sell delinquent bills as low as $50 to the highest bidder and get slammed with a penalty and 18% interest...
We had a police officer shot in the station and I have yet to hear any explanation as to what happened, why, and what would be done in the future to avoid such scenarios...
We passed a Play-to-Play law that was described as a sham by the state group that has written most of the P-2-P laws on the books in NJ...
Oh yea, Gloucester Township, a wonderful place to live, work, play, and pay taxes...

Additionally, I'm curious about you increase (23% 22% and 14 %) numbers...can you provide any more info regarding what you are talking about? Thanks.

Hacks can't handle Facts ,,,,,,,,,Thanks who ever gave me that ...Get him Paul

Mr. Gladden that was my husband who posted "Hacks hate facts". I'll tell him you appreciated his ballbreaking sense of humor.

They will be over today to see if you will look to press stalking charges , but on a real note we should charge you Mrs. Green for a poor voting record ....;-) Just care , I do ...PS Mrs Wolfson welcome to silly season

It would be both.
It would be Carlamere's failure.
It would be another instance of the opposition bringing nothing constructive, nothing substantive, nothing worth getting behind that would bring change for the better.

Mr. Gladden. I do not see Head as beating any one up just giving his opinion of the GOP correcting the failures of Council's legal advisor. He sees it as them just blocking and others see it as the GOP finally doing something to make it clear how inept their lack of state law and process is.

That is Heads opinion and he is completely entitled to it just as I am entitled to mine. I respect him for saying it and not attacking people personally. Open debate is a good thing.

""""""""'REALLLLLLLYYYYYY """"""' wannbe make me laugh ,,,,,,,I will not never back up ...I always move forward .....Now do we have a problem

No Darren I was trying to make you laugh

okay , what type of laugh ...hahaha, haha, ha or a lol maybe a lmao or lmfao

Head: this is completly different from what happened with Assemblywoman Mosquera. In that case she was rules not elidgible until a certain date. That date fell within a time period for the party to nominate her.

When the original article came out mentioning a possible problem, I did a quick google and found the NJ laws within a matter of minutes. Here is a summary of the process for a town with partisan council elections:

- From the date of the resignation, the party of the vacated seat has 15 calendar days to submit three names to council.
- Council has then until 30 days past the resignation to choose
- If the party fails to send three names in 15 days, council then can appoint anyone from the same party but still within 30 days.
- If Council fails to appoint anyone, and if the party has submitted their names within the first 15 day window the party then has 15 days to appoint the person (days 31 - 45 from the vacancy). If the party fails to appoint then the seat is open.
- If Council fails to appoint anyone within 30 days and the party did not send the list within 15 days the seat is vacant.

Note: this is to appoint, not swear in. Going by the dates mentioned here, Freeholder Gentek resigned effective Jan 1st. Mrs. Winters name was sent Feb 8th. This date is outside of the party's and the council's time lines.

Council had a meeting Jan 28th where they should have appointed her or they could have held a special session Jan 30th. Once

Just saw Sean gave details above. I added the statute for the seat being vacant. If the party needs more than 15 days they can take it as long as council then appoints within 30 days.

What is surprising here is that Mrs. Genteks resignation was no surprise. They knew she won in early November and could have started interviewing then. Or they could have started interviewing in mid 2012 when they announced her candidacy to the County Freeholder Board.

Head, maybe you see this as being obstructionist and maybe it is. Others see it as a wake up call to our elected officials that they need to start following the law because the Republicans will start to hold them accountable for it. Either way, thank you for a good dialogue on this.

what Arrogant ..........naming a Team after you ......WOW ......Talk about an EGO issue we have here ......... Just care , I do ..Team Dave must be replace in 13 .......;-)

Head: Well said, don't want to just vent and complaint here, What does one do besides show up at the council meetings and get on the "roll your eyes, here we go again list". Really, I want to affect some change but don't know how. Also, everyone here seems to think this is a repub against the demos project. It's not that way for me at all, just want to direct the proper energy. How do I do that!