Gloucester Township: A (not so) Wonderful Place to Live, Work, and PAY!
Sounds familiar, right; maybe just a little off?
Seriously, I’ve lived in Gloucester Township for almost twenty years this time around (not my first time here) and I have no real complaints about where I live…I have half an acre lot at the end of a quiet street with the benefit of a swath of woods buffering me from the Black Horse Pike. But the taxes are killing me and make it impossible for me to stay here after retirement. Is that what people like to hear about their lifetime homes where they’ve raised their families, that they can’t afford to stay there after retirement?
Work? Hmmmm, I’m not sure of that part of the phrase. If GT was ever a good place to work it’s becoming much less so. I realize that it’s bad all over but we seem to be stricken quite hard here in GT with businesses that have been around for years closing up and disappearing. I wonder what we’re doing to actually attract new business to GT? I can honestly say I do not have an answer to that but would love to understand it.
We come now to the meat of my comments…Gloucester Township, a (not so) wonderful place to pay, and pay, and pay, and PAY!
We have been reminded a number of times now that the Mayor has submitted a budget that does not raise our taxes…again! I would point out to all of you reading this that real estate taxes are not the only way for the township to raise and collect revenue.
Added Tax #1 – Red Light Camera Tickets: I grew up with an understanding that one of the rights I had as an American was the right to face my accuser. It’s called the Sixth Amendment to the Constitution and it reads this way:
“In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.”
I specifically point you to the phrase that informs us that as American citizens we are guaranteed the right “to be confronted with the witnesses against” us.
How many red-light-camera tickets have you received: none, one, two, three, more? If you have received one or more, is it possible you paid a ticket for an offense when you were not driving and not even in the car or at the scene of the so-called offense? Where then are the witnesses against you?
Please, tell me again, Mr. Mayor, about not raising my taxes.
Added Tax #2 – Animal Licensure: It was explained to me long ago that when the state requires a citizen to seek licensure for an action or thing that the state has effectively declared that action or thing illegal but has made a caveat to allow people to break that law…for a fee. The caveat of which I speak is licensure and it’s all done to raise revenue…in other words, it’s just another tax. So, why am I paying Gloucester Township $21 dollars each for two pets? My pets do not leave my property and they do not traverse public lands where they could leave any mess for others to clean. My pets have their immunizations maintained by me at significant cost by a local vet. So why is it illegal for me to own a dog to the tune of $21 each? Cats are taxed in this manner, as well.
From a colleague at work, substantiated by my check via the Internet, I understand that Audubon charges $8 for a dog license and $4 for a late fee. Gloucester Township charges $21 for a dog license and $15 for a late fee.
I’ve already asked here, somewhat tongue in cheek, if the next step after an animal license late fee is the tax sale. Don’t laugh; citizens who were late paying MUA bills, to the tune of as little as $50, had their bills sold at tax sale accruing additional penalties along with 18% interest.
Tell me again, Mr. Mayor, about how low my taxes are being kept.
Added Tax #3 – Poor Schools: Yes, it’s been argued over and over again here that the schools of Gloucester Township are just wonderful. Please allow me to say that I am not familiar with the elementary schools in GT, but in the end, all that matters is what we are pushing out the doors of our high schools. Just the other day a Patch reader published information available about the standing of our two GT high schools comparing 2010 and 2012 to the rest of the state’s schools.
Out of 328 public high schools in New Jersey, Highland High School fell from a poor ranking of 252 to a terrible ranking of 284; Timber Creek High School, likewise, fell from a ranking of 219 to 246.
I read years ago that Camden County College had raised concerns that it was spending too many of its resources that were meant for college education on attempting to bring high school graduates up to college level proficiency. The cry must have fallen on deaf ears because the cry died down and it appears that it is now common practice today for 75% of high school graduates entering community college to have to take remedial English and/or math.
Are you aware that in the Black Horse Pike Regional School District we are allotting over $16,000 per student for education? What could you do to educate you high school child with $16,000? What further amazes me is that it’s being recommended here that if you want your child to get on the fast track that it would be a good idea to enroll them in the Science camp being offered that runs through eight weeks of the summer. If you choose the full course it comes in at over $3,000.
One more time, Mr. Mayor, could you remind us all of how great a job is being done in GT to keep our taxes down?
Yes, Gloucester Township…a not-so wonderful place to live, work, and PAY! Can we do any better? I think so. Maybe you should think about showing up at a council meeting or two and letting your elected representatives know of your concerns…unless, of course, you have none because you think everything is just wonderful!
Big Daddy 1
8:41 am on Thursday, March 7, 2013
I saw a recent study that those red light cameras cause more accidents from people hitting the brakes with the ever present tailgater on their heels. I even witnessd one recently. Can't say that I ever saw an accident caused by someone going through a a second or two late or overshooting the white line a little to stop safely.
And don't forget about about the seat belt police. Not wearing a seat belt has never caused an accident.
Paul J. DiBartolo
9:12 am on Thursday, March 7, 2013
I can confirm that I have stopped short a number of times at these lights and realized I had not checked my rear view mirror due to lack of time...so far, so good, but your point is well taken. Unfortunately, our township refuses to acknowledge that this is happening. I raised this specific point in a council meeting and was issued the standard "thank you" with the implied 'now go sit down'.
Sybil Evans
9:37 am on Thursday, March 7, 2013
If a report exists and you read it that shows red light cameras cause accidents then post it on here, because even the most persistent opposition to the red light cameras have admitted no such reports exist. There are many people’s blogs and personal opinions but no actual federal or state studies. On the other hand while no study proved there has been an increase or decrease of accidents at the intersections having these cameras, many studies have proven the severity of accidents has decreased.
Christie had an opportunity a few months back to end these cameras but fought hard to reinstate the red light pilot program and very quickly because the state relies on its 50% share of every ticket the state makes. Millions more from each towns cameras then the towns themselves make. Like Christie has said before "It's good to be the king." In this case the residents will be paying 2x for these cameras though as in a settlement with people in the towns the cameras were found to be defective in (not Gloucester Twp) the state will be making refunds on millions of tickets. Now you may have never been issued or paid a ticket for a red light violation but your tax dollars are going to go toward reimbursing those who did break the law and all over a technicality. The funds will come from the state’s general fund all homeowners pay into.
http://www.thirteen.org/metrofocus/2012/07/after-a-pause-new-jersey-greenlights-red-light-cameras/
(1 of 2 )
Sybil Evans
9:38 am on Thursday, March 7, 2013
The real issue is that over 1/2 the people issued tickets were issued them not for fully running the light as the intention was for instituting the program, but rather for what’s known as the California roll. No not the sushi. It’s what’s known as the driver covers the break has clear vision and intention to stop if needed too, but realizes they are clear and in a true attempt at not wasting gas they come to an almost but not quite complete stop and slowly "roll" through the light. This was the whole reason right on red was made law in the 70’s. This is where the law needs to be adjusted to contain some resemblance of common sense. Making a complete stop defeats the purpose of the right on red as there are plenty of studies to show it uses more gas to accelerate from a complete stop then it does from a slow roll.
While I still believe the law (right now requires a complete stop first) and we have live by the laws we have. I do see the point of changing this law to meet its true intention, and that was to catch people that had no intention of stopping, as they are the people that cause severe accidents and even preventable deaths.
(2 of 2)
Paul J. DiBartolo
10:03 am on Thursday, March 7, 2013
EASY button - Wow, that was easy...
Your comments hardly deserve a response and you could have done this yourself. In fact, I was aware that such info and studies existed, because I have read them, but did not realize so much was already out there. Anyway, here's the first hit in response to a search for "Do red light cameras cause accidents":
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/11/red-light_cameras_lead_to_more.html
What really scares me is that I agree with your comments about the spirit versus the letter of the law and have raised that issue myself in the past. The whole idea of right turn on red was from the state purportedly to save gas. Now we're being hammered over the head for doing what the state cajoled us into doing in the first place; all for the crime of not coming to a complete, dead stop where in many instances...like the intersection of Blackwood-Clementon Road and Erial Road, it is not even an issue and there is no danger posed by rolling stops whatsoever.
Pete Heinbaugh
10:08 am on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Here is a link to the 2012 report from the NJDOT regarding the red light camera program:
http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/publicat/lmreports/pdf/2012rlrfinalreport.pdf
Here is a pertinent excerpt:
"...the data indicate that total crashes are up 0.9%, however, more severe right-angle crashes are down 15%, while same-direction (rear-end) crashes are up 20%..."
Sybil Evans
11:44 am on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Pete good article and as I said the "server accidents" are down and substantially.
Paul the intersection you refer to is a scary intersection because of children walking. If it was not so close to the off ramp to 42 and they were not afraid of traffic congestion and backups that would fill the bill for a no turn on red sign that conveniently overlook the traffic statutes because they are attempting to avoid backups onto route 42.
Now I am more apt to buy into not having camera at the McDonalds & Kmart intersection. Seems like a total waste. It serves no purpose of regulating traffic other than being used for what its real intention is; a cash cow. What about the one at Rite Aid? Seriously? It's not even a 4 way stop. When I first moved to GT they didn’t even have a light there and all the businesses were actually OPEN. The reason for putting that one there was they said people where running the light coming off Cherrywood drive because it was a long light. OK I buy that said then put the camera only facing Cherrywood Dr since it’s not a 4 way anyway and lengthen the green and yellow lights for those trying to leave the community. How about this one put in a weight or headlight sensor so people don't get frustrated waiting when they see no traffic and are stuck in upwards of 5 minutes at that intersection for no reason.
Sybil Evans
11:51 am on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Oh and I see I forgot about the traffic signal in between Kmart and Cherrywood that serves no purpose either there isn't even a cross street there. Just an entrance to the side of the gas station. What are they hurting by turning on red there. See Paul if you were not so argumentative and belligerent maybe you would find out more people would openly agree with you about more topics.
Paul J. DiBartolo
9:15 am on Thursday, March 7, 2013
For any and all that are reading, this late breaking news just in (actually, it appeared after my blog was submitted): the school board is going for an increase in the school tax as seen here (http://gloucestertownship.patch.com/articles/high-school-taxes-likely-to-tick-up-slightly-for-gloucester-twp). So, given that the 'slight uptick' will most likely be approved we will then see our real estate taxes go up even further. But don't forget, it's all for the children.
Sybil Evans
9:50 am on Thursday, March 7, 2013
The "slight uptick" as you describe it will be approved since thanks to Governor Christie's 2% cap you fought to get approved. Taxpayers in GT no longer have the right to vote on school budgets. Even though this increase very very incidental $3 and 25 cents per quarter on a $200,000 assessment, and is going toward repairs needed to buildings, prior to Christies 2% cap we would have been able to vote on it.
Paul J. DiBartolo
10:05 am on Thursday, March 7, 2013
I love how you love to assume..."thanks to Governor Christie's 2% cap you fought to get approved." You know even less than I thought you knew.
Great Job Gt
10:38 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013
Keep raising the taxes for the children... Good job,,,,I meant great job gtsb....keep up the good work.........
Sybil Evans
9:43 am on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Corrected link sorry the other link in my first comment is also an interesting read just not the one that annonces the refunds http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/12/settlement_reached_in_red-ligh.html
Darren Gladden
12:18 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Sybil Evans , I would really love to pick your mind one day . I bet you fight with yourself in your computer room ........Just saying , Here we go loop -da-looouuuuuu .........Just care , I do
Andre Bademos
3:16 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Darren what did you forget which screen name you were using? No misspelled words, no typos and you actually used sentences. "Clap, Clap, Hooray!” We knew you could do it. We’re all so proud of you now.
Darren Gladden
3:33 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
That great ......Now understand I just roll with my one Screen name , Sorry I keep it real unlike you ......ps Just care , I do
Darren Gladden
4:42 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
One more thing pass this U-Tube off to Dave and the Team http://youtu.be/_UnPzp2lmNk JCID
Great Job Gt
6:58 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Good to be back in Gt. Let me take a moment to review.
Great Job Gt
8:33 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
First, If Gt is (not so) wonderful place to live, why are people still living here. We don't have to stay somewhere if we don't like it. We all have the right to live where we want.
Paul J. DiBartolo
8:45 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
I've owned a home here for nearly twenty years and raised a family here. I'd love to sell my home, would you be willing to buy it so that my time here was worthwhile? That would shut me up. Or should I be willing to take a loss for having lived in such a wonderful place?
Did you read the blog? Must you always act like such a numbskull? What exactly is your major malfunction? I'd really like to know? I'm going to have to call the township council and tell them to shorten your leash; you're beginning to harass the public.
In other words...
Paul J. DiBartolo
8:50 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
>> Let me take a moment to review.
BTW, is your comment questioning why people still live in GT the best you could come up with? (Do you own a home? Have you ever sold a home? Do you understand what a large undertaking it is to get up and move?)
So, what's wrong, can't you tell me I'm wrong about the dog licenses? How about our lovely schools here in GT? Nothing to say about the falling placement numbers?
Gee, your silence on these issues appears to be agreement. Better not let the masters find out.
Great Job Gt
8:57 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
I am not involved with gt council. I never had a conversation with any member of council. If you write a blog I have every right to respond. You respond to articles and blogs and you have that right. I also have the right to respond. Everyone who comments on gt patch knows other people will respond to there comments and or blogs.
You talk about red light camera tickets and the sixth amendment where you have the right to face your accuser in all criminal prosecutions. I never heard running a red light is criminal.
Paul J. DiBartolo
9:24 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Try running a red light and ignoring the ticket. Let me know how that works out...
Great Job Gt
9:18 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Paul, your silent, respond to the above. Is a red light camera ticket a criminal violation. Just answer the question. You should tell the truth when you write something. We can break down everything you wrote. This is the first question. Is this a criminal violation of the law or are you misleading the readers.............
Darren Gladden
9:26 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
It's a FINE , ....BUT people are getting rich off of it'S SCAM system.The GREED in Government Today ....Hey someone Tell the Director Department of Law in the Township it's time to put the Law Books away ........PS If someone would like to buy my house for what I paid for plus 25,000 for Moving ........I'm GONE .........Just care ,I do Dave Team stinks and his PATCH trolls make me laugh with there Lies
Paul J. DiBartolo
9:27 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Who is "we"?
I stand by my question to you above. Let me know how it works out and we'll have our answer.
Great Job Gt
9:29 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Paul that is the wrong answer.... You are telling your readers that it is a criminal violation....you are now trying to say something you didn't write. Your not going to jail if you don't pay the ticket. You are misleading the readers. Can you answer the question? Is it criminal as you say in your blog??????
Paul J. DiBartolo
9:39 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
What is this, a court of law and you think you are the prosecutor? Get a grip.
Actually, I never said it was a criminal offense. I made a reference to the fact that when we are accused we have a right to face our accusers. Exactly how does the state or township justify attempting to force me to pay a ticket when I was never stopped and ticketed and told the nature of my offense.
Take a chill pill, Odd Job, Jr., and answer the main question I am asking in my blog instead of trying to confuse everyone.
Darren Gladden
9:50 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Hey if you Don't pay YOUR FINES YOU GO to Jail ...........OMG Please smart one Great Job Gt get a clue .............SMH....Dave team stinks
Sybil Evans
10:53 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Newsflash Darren If you don't break the law you don't get a ticket. If you don't get a ticket you don't get a fine. If you do get a ticket like you have at least three times in the past in GT not counting whatever other towns you committed the same crimes in and If you appear in court and win you don't get guilty verdict on your ticket and you don't have to pay a fine and you don't get a warrant for your arrest for failing to appear in court. If you don't get a warrant you don't get suspended. Darren do you see the cause and effect (AKA pattern).
Don't break the law. Until the laws are changed these are the laws Governor Chris Christie enforces as Governor. The law is the same across the state it is not unique to GT like you and Paul imply. If the mayor here had a magic wand and could overturn the previous Republican Mayor Cindy Rau-Hatton's agreement with the state to allow GT to participate in the Pilot program, and you ran a red light in Deptford the same fines, penalties and procedures would apply.
The important question is how can you avoid these things from happening to you? How about this new concept called OBEYING THE LAWS of the state of New Jersey?
Darren Gladden
12:04 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
NEW FLASH ....Go look at my police report and driving record . Now can we look at yours . No we can't fake one .........."WINNING" sorry .....Now NewFlash understand this little number I made up in my head ...........Now ,Now Fake ones and bullies your beat down Tactics YOU trolls use back in the old days of CAMDEN county and GT polotics is coming to a HEAD . Save grace and Understand the NETWORK of truth is smacking you in da head , Come clean and start a new day cause your DAVE TEAM just don't get it .........Just care , I do
Great Job Gt
9:35 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Darren, your right. It's a fine. Paul is informing his readers that it criminal. Paul still waiting for your answer..............
Darren Gladden
9:52 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Now do you go to Jail if you don't pay your FINES ...........Smart one
Paul J. DiBartolo
10:05 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
I have to agree with Darren because I've seen it happen to others before. Unfortunately, you are the only one that refuses to answer the question, Odd Job, Jr. If you ignore the ticket what eventually happens?
Great Job Gt
9:58 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Paul you clearly state the sixth amendment regarding the red light camera.. After just showing my family that part of your blog they laughed. You need to stop misleading the readers of gt patch. You try to scare the readers and mislead them about gt government. Why would you quote the sixth amendment. You talked about criminal prosecution then you back peddle. You have no credibility as a blogger.......when you are wrong you have to man up. Bash and bash the mayor and council with lies just ruins your credibility. Your on the bottom of the barrel now. I will go on with the rest of your misleading statements where you are trying mislead the good people of gt once we figure out if you realize you misspoken and fabricated the truth again......
Paul J. DiBartolo
10:02 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
I think your family was laughing at you. Anyway, everybody reading this gets it; except you. But that's okay, one day you'll wake up and smell the coffee. I'm not really worried about my credibility because I didn't have much to begin with. You're the only one that seems to be worried about it. Frankly, I'm still waiting for you to ask an intelligent question or raise a cogent point. Until then...
Great Job Gt
10:04 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Paul is it a criminal violation of the law as you allege in your blog. Stop dancing around
Paul J. DiBartolo
10:07 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
One more chance. Provide the quote where I specifically said it was criminal. Do not tell me what you inferred or what you thought I implied, just DUH fax, ma'am!
Great Job Gt
10:10 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Your right. Your right and it came out of your mouth "I'm not really worried about my credibility because I Didn't have much to begin with." Wow that is a true and powerful statement. This is why council does not answer your questions (as you admit). Then you sit down. You just hit the nail on the head. Thank the mayor, council and police chief for a job well done. If you don't like the feedback I give you, stop blogging.
Great Job Gt
10:17 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Darren you are 100 percent wrong. If you don't pay the fine you will not go to jail. You will,have your licenses suspended by DMV.
Darren Gladden
10:36 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Really, So win let me ask you this if you don't pay your FINES .""""" Does The judge order a Bench warrant for your arrest.'''''' YES or No """""' That does not HAPPEN FAKE ONE """""""''......Get your facts 100% RIGHT ......."Hack" once again you are wrong
Great Job Gt
10:30 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Sixth amendment as you state you have the right to face your accusers in criminal prosecutions. It's under your added tax 1. Put the reply on so we can show your readers(not many) our responses. Stop doing the cha cha cha........
Great Job Gt
10:42 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
NO Darren, you are 100 percent wrong. Look it up. Not a hack, I just tell the facts. Look it up I will wait.......show me where a judge has the authority to order a bench warrant in nj for a red light violation.....you guys all mislead to gt residents ..waiting..............
Darren Gladden
10:47 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Wait you are telling me if I don't pay my Scam MONEY FOR MAKING A RIGHT HAND TURN ON RED ....The judge can't order a bench warrant for me for the payment ,,,,,,,Okay who is willing to blow the red light and test out GJGt statment . Come man ,,,,,,,,,
Great Job Gt
10:45 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Paul, the misleader of bloggers on gt patch, is it criminal as you state let us readers know. You write a blog and want people to comment. Let us know as you state in your blog.
Great Job Gt
10:49 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Paul let us reply to the above comment. You agree with Darren, shocker. Show us where a judge orders a bench warrant...... You are Darren's lapdog.....get your facts jack........like I said before, the shoppers guide wouldn't even hire you. Horrible and no credibility.
Great Job Gt
11:06 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Darren look it up,tell the readers the truth. It is handled by DMV. They will suspend your license. Show us where a judge ordered a bench warrant for a red light camera ticket.... I am waiting. Don't jump on Paul's band wagon. The readers on patch clearly see he misleads the readers of gt patch. He will cause this site to close down because of his mistruths
Great Job Gt
11:15 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Come on Paul. You write a blog and want to put it out on gt patch answer the questions. Face the facts. Don't hide when you don't like when gt patch people question you......
Great Job Gt
11:19 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Still have a lot of other questions about your mistrusts in your blog..... Out of sight, out of mind.....
Great Job Gt
11:20 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Mistruths
Great Job Gt
11:23 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
You guys are taking a lot of time ......google.....google....google.....
Darren Gladden
8:53 am on Friday, March 8, 2013
No some people sleep "Hack " ........SMH
Great Job Gt
11:46 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Almost an hour later. No response. Try yahoo.....red light camera .......Paul is going to make the readers jump ship.........I only got less then 5 percent of this blog done.....stay tuned people.....we will break this blog down and get to the truth... Gt patch members call mayor Meyer and tell him thank you for all his hard work.... We will not let some people try to intimidate the residents with lies and mistrusts.......ps Dave thanks for the recycle can........still waiting paul
Great Job Gt
11:58 pm on Thursday, March 7, 2013
Paul I can't reply to your above comment....let me reply. .....you agree with Darren.... Ride his coat tail...... As I said before leaders step up to the plate.... Your out with only one pitch ........,,we still have to break this blog down......lets go I am waiting to let gt know the truth........gt patch needs to monitor these blogs to make sure they are accurate ...........
Great Job Gt
12:04 am on Friday, March 8, 2013
Almost two hours later and no response, Paul don't write a blog if you can't stand behind your facts.............ps thank Dave for the recycle can and thank council for they're dedication and thank the police chief for the safety he provides to you and your family..........I still want to go line by line of your blog
Joe
7:50 am on Friday, March 8, 2013
All the debate over redlight cameras, for what? They aren't going away now that the Twp. has another income.
Here's one, a ticket for only stopping for 2.4 seconds instead of the required 3 seconds. $85 Are we stupid for putting up with this crap?
Big Daddy 1
8:52 am on Friday, March 8, 2013
Nice to hear a comment that wasn't attacking another commenter. Do we really have to stop for 3.0 seconds? Is that for stop signs too, or just right turns on red?
Paul J. DiBartolo
9:59 am on Friday, March 8, 2013
Wow, have you come up for air yet, Odd Job? As Darren stated, people have to sleep. I logged off at 10PM because I needed to get ready for a busy day today. You see, some of us have to work, as well. You on the other hand were bordering on becoming a raving maniac. I told you to breathe in and out and repeat as necessary; then you might not appear so schizophrenic. You see, you appear to be talking only to yourself.
I notice you don't answer questions like this one:
"One more chance. Provide the quote where I specifically said it was criminal. Do not tell me what you inferred or what you thought I implied, just DUH fax, ma'am!"
I get it. Look, I promise you and everyone else here that my next blog will be centered specifically on the red-light camera issue. In the mean time, take all the time you need to go through the rest of this blog and point out all my errors.
Finally, allow me to explain the medium we are using. This is a blog. I am unpaid and it is a part-time endeavor. My method is to share my opinion on matters that I believe need addressing and I attempt to provide as much fact as possible. Some of it is thus based on fact and some of it is pure opinion.
You seem to think that the Patch is responsible to fact-check my blog and censor me. If that were actually the case all of your accounts would have been suspended long ago.
So, get a life...seriously. Stay tuned for the follow-up on the red-light cams. I need to get back to work.
Linda Ostraski
11:12 am on Friday, March 8, 2013
Added tax #2 - The township is charging what they're allowed to charge per state law. http://www.state.nj.us/health/animalwelfare/dog_lic.shtml. They're charging it along with many other towns in NJ. Plucking out a neighboring town who has a low paying contract with a shelter is pretty misleading. Oh you didn't realize your animal fees might be tied directly to what your shelter charges your township? Check into what CCAS charges this township, Paul. It's the same as what it charges all the other towns who use their services. Audubon uses a different shelter. Just a thought but perhaps we charge the maximum allowed by state law to try to cover the exorbitant fees the only shelter in town is charging us. No wiggle room there, we need a shelter and they charge all the towns the same fee. No negotiating for a better fee or shopping shelters. If you have issue with #2 check with Mr. Cardis and ask if this is perhaps why we're charging $21.00 since the website clearly states: "License fees are kept by the municipality and used for animal and rabies control activities." You can't blame the township when their back is against the wall. How do I know? I got caught in a licensing loop when I moved towns, and I checked instead of pointing fingers.
Paul J. DiBartolo
11:45 am on Friday, March 8, 2013
And the exorbitant late fee? Say what you may, it's a tax. Why am I paying for rabies shots for other dogs? I vaccinate my pets and they never leave my property. Additionally, Mr. Cardis does not like to be questioned.
GT shopped around for an EMT service, maybe we need to shop around for a different shelter...unless there is some other kind of deal going on of which we are unaware.
Paul J. DiBartolo
12:51 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
Part 1: Is there a problem identifying a red-light ticket violation as a minor crime?
Okay, I’ve put a little time into the brouhaha over what I stated about red-light cameras and have decided that Odd Job, Jr., is putting up a smokescreen…talk about blowing smoke.
Here’s part of what I wrote: “I grew up with an understanding that one of the rights I had as an American was the right to face my accuser.” I then quoted the sixth Amendment and drew specific attention to the portion that specifies our right “to be confronted with the witnesses against” us.
This apparently raised the ire of our local Democratic-sponsored attack dog. He/she did not like the fact that the Sixth Amendment references “criminal prosecutions” as if I was lumping traffic violations with murder.
There are such things in New Jersey as traffic laws. When you violate one of those laws you have broken the law and you are issued a traffic citation by an officer of the law who confronts you at that time. Gloucester Township has jumped on the bandwagon of issuing citations for traffic violations based on “guilt by association.” In other words, there is no proof that you committed any violation or that you were present at the scene of the violation, only that a vehicle registered in your name was there at the scene as evidenced by a video tape which is in no way foolproof.
Sybil Evans
11:23 am on Monday, March 11, 2013
Paul, I for one have no problem calling a red light ticket a crime. You brag you got out of 1 red light ticket but you did pay a few others didn't you Paul? As did Darren. Now I also agree with Darren if he didn't pay his he would have gone to jail eventually, but it would not have been for the ticket, like he claims. The offense that would have had him locked up would have been failing to appear in court that is what he would have had the warrant for.
See Paul when you violate the driving law in such a minor way like running a red light you are issued a ticket. Then you have a choice to make, appear in court and face your accuser, the camera, and the officer who wrote the ticket. Or you can ignore the ticket and commit another crime called "Failure to Appear in court," that is what your license gets suspended for and what you get arrested for until you appear and win or get found guilty or plead guilty. You do not go to jail for the ticket you go for your actions after you get the ticket.
Sybil Evans
11:24 am on Monday, March 11, 2013
Paul, as far as demanding a jury trial for a ticket you actually can do that, you are correct you do have the right to a jury trial only you have to pay for it the same way any criminal would have too. Did you know the defendant pays for a jury trial? Yes that is a fact a jury trial is your right and if you invoke that right you get to pay for it, I believe, for a driving offense you get a 6 or 7 member jury not 12 and you pay their wages, plus the trial judges, and prosecutors pay, as well as your own attorney. See most people don't choose this option for a red light ticket but you sure can.
The fees application is $212 plus court and jury fees. AS you can see the court costs are not the same $30 fee you have if you didn't choose to be an idiot. You demand to waste people’s time you get to pay for the option. That’s why normal people don’t ask for jury trial for a red light ticket.
Paul J. DiBartolo
1:54 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013
You probably know what you're talking about, Sybil...but nobody else does. As for running a red light, I've never received a ticket for such so the assumption should be, I've never run a red light. It's called the presumption of innocence and is the foundation of our system of law.
Your problem is you continue to conflate what is called the California roll with running a red light. You thus accuse GT residents of nothing more than not coming to a complete stop for X seconds, where a right on red is allowed, of criminal activity as if we were running red lights.
The system is flawed and if nothing else the video monitoring system should be disconnected from the phone lines - as in, who do you know and do you receive a call before a ticket is issued. It's the same method used in this township when issuing DUIs.
Get over it.
BTW, I didn't brag that I got out of a ticket by some hook, the township was forced to drop the charge because there was insufficient evidence collected on its part. That did not stop the township from dragging me into court, however.
Paul J. DiBartolo
12:52 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
Part 2: Is there a problem identifying a red-light ticket violation as a minor crime?
So, the argument seems to be over the use of the word crime/criminal. This really degenerates into a matter of semantics…I hesitate to do so but I will entertain the argument for a moment but am unwilling to get mired down over semantics.
The dictionary states: “crime”: an act or the commission of an act that is forbidden or the omission of a duty that is commanded by a public law and that makes the offender liable to punishment by that law.
Crime is usually classified as either a felony or a misdemeanor. I’ve looked around and in many places traffic violations are classified as misdemeanors. Again, we’re dealing in semantics. Traffic laws are written. When you violate a traffic law you are charged with a violation, a breaking of the law, and you written a ticket with an associated fine.
I am not the first one to associate the Sixth Amendment to traffic-camera tickets and I won’t be the last. Most who write about traffic camera tickets bring up two objections that seem to resound across the spectrum: the right to be faced by your accuser (6th Amendment) and the fact that as Americans we are to be considered innocent until proven guilty (known as the presumption of innocence).
Paul J. DiBartolo
12:52 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
Part 3: Is there a problem identifying a red-light ticket violation as a minor crime?
I have been to court over a red-light camera ticket and had the charges dropped. I was presumed guilty by the court and had to prove my innocence. Do you agree with that backwards way of applying the law? The point is thus that it’s not cut and dry and many cities and states are getting rid of such practice of the law. The latest story comes out of Ohio and can be read here: http://www.whiotv.com/news/news/local/court-rules-against-traffic-cameras-ohio-consideri/nWkbw/
As stated earlier I plan to dig deeper into the use of the red-light cameras in Gloucester Township in another blog but reluctantly took the time here to address our local attack dog’s concerns. You can read my comments and you can read his/hers. I have no concerns over my logic and stand by my arguments. On the other hand, I will not protest if Odd Job, Jr., feels compelled to lick the shoes of our mayor over red-light cameras and designer recycle buckets; but he/she should not expect anyone else to stoop to that level.
Odd Job, you can rant on as much as you want but until my next blog about the red-light camera issue I am finished with this particular argument.
Great Job Gt
5:39 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
Paul, there is no reason for the name calling. Do we agree that this is a traffic violation and you won't go to jail for this.......
Paul J. DiBartolo
5:51 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
No reason for name calling? Which personality are you displaying? Did you suddenly forget all of this, (and I quote):
Paula, as it clearly shows from the people writing the blogs above no one cares what you write because your blogs are boring . Just look at how many people made a comment. Stop crying and keep your day job. Let us know if you are going to run for mayor so we can laugh at you when Dave beats you. Step to the plate if gt is so bad. (Great Job Gt - 12:29 am on Saturday, March 2, 2013).
Did you suddenly forget your relentless name calling and badgering? Give me a break.
BTW, which part of "Odd Job, you can rant on as much as you want but until my next blog about the red-light camera issue I am finished with this particular argument" did you not understand?
Agree? No I don't agree with you. Did you read this - "I have no concerns over my logic and stand by my arguments."
Rant on, Odd Job.
Big Daddy 1
1:29 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
Innocent until proven guilty is a concept that has been eroded in recent decades. Look at our DWI laws. The vast majority of arrests do not involve an accident or any injuries. Domestic violence is another. That has become a new means for wives to get rid of husbands they no longer want to have around.
This is not an attack on anyone so there is no need for any insults or other attacks.
Sybil Evans
11:32 am on Monday, March 11, 2013
Big Daddy are you seriously trying to say driving drunk should only be a crime if you have an accident or cause injury to someone? Then you go further to claim domestic violence is just a way women get "rid of husbands they no longer want around?"
With logic like you used making those comments I can see why you beg people not to insult or attack you. I think your safe on that one since anyone who reads your comments would probably take the same position I did, there is no way to insult you worse then you did with your own comment. I never believed anyone cold be that ignorant to the laws but then again you never cease to amaze us with your remarks.
Big Daddy 1
2:43 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013
Sybil, read and absorb and you shall learn. I never said they shouldn't be crimes. I just said they are incidents where you are guilty until proven innocent. I even asked that no one insuilt me. But you couldn't help yourself. So you made up stuff so you could insult me anyway. Where do they find these people?
Susan Greene
1:33 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
Hey Darren,
Speaking of NEWS FLASH, seems like word is out on your buddy John Schmidt from S.J.Citizens has been charged with HARRASSMENT of a school board member. WOW, IF that's true, well I guess he finally crossed the line.IS it true Darren, your good friends with the guy you should know.. Just wondering.lol
Darren Gladden
1:53 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
Okay my Dear Susan Greene good Friends "Na" , a person I know and think again was mis-charge YES , Now you want to see Harrassment ask the MAYOR team .They are good at it . Roll the Video http://gloucestertownship.patch.com/articles/darren-gladden-len-moffa-confrontation#video-9716380 . Now DAVE TEAM is the worst . Wait can't I still FILE CHARGES against Lenny and the Township ....Yes I can ...No did u get that life size Picture of me Susan Greene
Sybil Evans
11:01 am on Monday, March 11, 2013
Darren remember he can still press charges on you too.
Since most consider that guy Gladden was the aggressor and believe Moffa was defending himself against a guy acting in a manor many deemed to be irrational, and psychopathic, I for one would love to see how that plays out for that irrational guy the police removed. Who has the popcorn, lets see if Gladden presses false charges just so his buddy Schmidt doesn't get put in an orange jumpsuit. By the way Darren Schmidt had Charges pressed against him not a ticket. maybe you can use this as an example of how Charges are different from a driving violation.
Sybil Evans
11:02 am on Monday, March 11, 2013
*Darren, Schmidt*
Big Daddy 1
2:47 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013
Darren, I guess you have to replay the video of Moffa going after you again. It seems we have another one who accuses without any basis.
Susan Greene
4:37 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
Thanks for clearing that up. I take it as a yes, I think. sorry Darren, it's not about you this time it's about your out of town friend. How would you know where to send a life size picture of you? So the answer is no, i did not receive a life size picture of you.
If I want to see you , I will watch council live on the internet on Monday. But again, it's not about you, it's about John Schmidt, seems he finally got caught up in his antics of harassing almost every town in South Jersey. Of course, innocent until proven guilty, but with his history, I have a hard time believing that. Just my opinion. BTW Darren, did you notice, no name calling, live up to it, you can get your point across without it. I sure can.
Sis you say mis charge? What does that mean?
Great Job Gt
6:17 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
Paul Paul Paul, did not mean the Paula. That was not on purpose.... Where are we at on the agreement if this is a traffic violation.? Secondly, I have to agree with 2. Fees are high for pets....you see Paul, I will agree with what you write when you are right.
Great Job Gt
6:42 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
Paul I am reviewing your above comment regarding living in gt. I see some things that do not make a lot sense. I will advise. Activate your reply button like 98 percent of the true people do
Great Job Gt
7:02 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
Paul, you shut down quicker then Clover on the black horse pike. I will respond more on the blog but I am getting ready to take the wife and some friends out...I got my dancin shoes on.....keep doing your research on red light cameras.....you have all night
Big Daddy 1
7:15 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
Thank you God.
Great Job Gt
7:23 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
Paul,my wife just said if he complains about gt so much why doesn't he just move.....this is how a normal person responds. Your excuse about house values is lame......I will advise... I am off..............,70 something comments. Oh thanks GREAT JOB GT. I will have you breaking records because you can't do it yourself.....stay tuned....keep looking up things in the dictionary..............you have all night....peace out
Paul J. DiBartolo
7:40 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
I'm not sure who loves you more Odd Job, your wife or you. What a pathetic couple you two must make. How does it feel to be as irrelevant, dishonest, and unintelligent as you must be? Hurry and run ask your township masters what you should say next. As evidenced by the comment above yours, everyone is tiring of your childishness. You're doing pretty good keeping up the running conversation with yourself; no worries, I have no plans to interrupt. Maybe you can have your wife read your comments and laugh at your witlessness every so often. Which of the fast food restaurants along Blackwood-Clementon Road are your treating your guests to anyway?
Good night...maybe I'll check back on Monday to see if you are still blathering.
Darren Gladden
8:44 pm on Friday, March 8, 2013
U going out dancing with Drama Dan
Great Job Gt
12:15 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Paul speak about pathetic,,your wife and family must see how pathetic you are. You clearly admit the township council does not even respond to your questions....just like no one responds to your blogs because they stink and are nothing but fabrications... You are a disgrace to gt and like I said before the shoppers guide would not even hire you.....thousands of residents in gt and not even 1percent of gt comments about your blogs.......if things are so bad run against Dave instead of trying to convince 5 people out of thousands that you are so smart......comments speak for themselves........no one cares about what you have to say....AS council always tells you ...Take a seat.... Your comments don't mean a thing......shocker.....keep looking up words in the dictionary....since you have nothing to do all night.....your real smart....
Big Daddy 1
9:16 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Dancing is usually accompanied by loud music that tends to drown out what people are saying. Sometimes that's a good thing.
Paul J. DiBartolo
9:22 am on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Unfortunately, Big Daddy, subtlety won't work. It usually requires a large jack hammer to break through the kind of concrete we are dealing with here.
Schu
5:12 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Used to be a nice place to live.
Darren Gladden
5:15 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
It still is we just got to dig down deep and get NEW, Fresh Leadership that can turn all the wrongs into rights ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Don't give up
Great Job Gt
5:16 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Schu move...............if it is so bad......we don't need you here anyway
Great Job Gt
6:49 pm on Saturday, March 9, 2013
Mayor Mayer and council. Every time Paul DiBartolo comes up to the mic keep telling him the same thing you guys been telling him all along, thank you, you can have a seat. See council he is just a disgruntled resident who thinks he is real smart. Tell him the truth next time he comes up to the mic. Tell him if gt is so bad MOVE. We don't need him in gt. He does nothing for the community. He misleads the residents of gt and try's to intimidate readers.......tell him to sit, sit sit,,,,good boy,.ps tell him his blogs stink......
Great Job Gt
9:47 pm on Sunday, March 10, 2013
Mayor keep up the good work.......you need to increase the fine on the red light camera.... Thank you for keeping gt safe......ps mayor this blog is very misleading...but as you can tell no one really cares.....thanks for the recycle can and arv
Great Job Gt
10:31 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013
Paul you complain and cry about the red light cameras in gt. you decide to blog about them but The readers surely don't care. Then there is a council meeting tonight and you are nwin (NO WHERE IN SIGHT) if you want to cry and rant why don't you go to the meeting and voice your concerns... That's right sit,,,,thank you sit ,sit
Paul J. DiBartolo
8:55 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013
Is that an invite? Tell me who you are and we can sit together at the next meeting. Is it a date? I think I already know the answer...so, why not just shut up? Talk about boring; considering the nature, frequency, and volume of your comments, that's an understatement. (I realize you won't understand most of this comment but you can take my word that it's really meant for anybody else that's still reading. Oh, and as per your assertions that nobody is reading why do you keep hogging the bandwidth with your inanities?)
Amanda
9:28 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013
As soon as the housing market comes back I'm taking the white flight on outta here.
Sybil Evans
10:07 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013
Paul you talk about hogging bandwidth. You make droves of redundant comments, insults, name calling, and general misleading, that is what is hogging bandwidth. You make unsubstantiated insinuations that have no merit of truth. We come on here to make sure people see the other side of your misrepresentations because you are usually intentionally misleading people.
Now I understand how much respect for me you have but understand I am not the only one in GT that can see through your BS. I said this numerous times, there are many more people on here that don’t agree with you. You look like a fool when you make assertions that everyone that opposes you is me under a different screen name. You are just too ignorant to see that. Your paranoia is getting to a point that you’re starting to scare people. I mean seriously you are and not because your 5’ 1” 250 lb grey bearded stature scare anyone, we are worried about your mental stability. Some of the things you say show you are rapidly becoming very paranoid, and it shows in your comments. Who in their right mind would analyze people’s comments and try to rationalize who they are. Hint you can’t analyze a comment and assume it’s someone you never talked to in your life.
One of the bloggers said it best with this comment "this mayor could cure cancer and you would have a problem with it."
Paul J. DiBartolo
11:01 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013
Let's get it right, Sybil, neither you, any of your alter-egos, or any of your so-called friends on here are bloggers. To be considered a blogger you might want to get an account and write a blog. I can understand why you don't do it because you would have to reveal yourself, post a picture and profile so we could all ridicule you like you attempt to do to me - BTW, the personal insults you attempt to throw around are fraught with lies - and then have a modicum of intelligence to string to cogent sentences together. It is obvious to me and anybody else reading here that you are incapable of doing any of that.
The bottom line is this, Sybil, the people of Gloucester Township and those reading here are not as stupid as you attempt to make us all appear. We see right through you but that's what happens when you use personal insults to criticize people but hide behind a false name so nobody knows who you are. It's only a matter of time before you go over the edge and write something for which your account is again suspended and then you have to think up a new name.
I'll tell you what, if you're interested in telling me who you are I will give you an email to which you can post that info and I give you my solemn promise that I will not reveal that info to anybody else. My word is my bond and I stand behind everything I write and am known by anybody who chooses to read me. What's your excuse?
Sybil Evans
11:41 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013
Paul you just stated exactly why most people choose pen names here. This is your quote on why you want peoples real names: "I can understand why you don't do it because you would have to reveal yourself, post a picture and profile so we could all ridicule you..." Paul DiBartolo.
See Paul your comment is exactly why people choose anonymity, you claim you want my name and you will keep your word that it will remain confidential, You have no word to keep because you clearly stated the only reason you want my name is to "ridicule" What kind of man wants to "ridicule" a woman? You are a disgrace.
Paul you claim you don't name call people yet anyone that reads any of your posts can see the first time someone doesn't agree with you immediately "ridicule" them. Combine that with your comment,”… post a picture and profile so we could all ridicule you..." Paul DiBartolo. Talk about having multiple personalities you just displayed a multiple personality in the same comment. I can see why you are so paranoid that some people post under multiple screen names after all you surley seem to have the experience doing it so I can see why you would accuse others.
You think because you put your picture up that makes you a man? That just makes everyone see the face behind the ignorant comments you post, it does not make you a man it makes you pathetic.
Susan Greene
12:11 pm on Wednesday, March 13, 2013
Disclaimer Paul? Really, as I posted before, you do know John, you go up before and after him attacking Council. You talk with him before and after Council meetings. You just posted ..so called friends. Really, seems like your his fair weather friend. Why did you shake your credibility like that Paul?
If you want reply's to your comments without what you call attacks, then why don't you be the first one to stop it and let people post their comments without you insulting their intelligence because you think your smarter than everyone in this Township.
Paul J. DiBartolo
12:26 pm on Wednesday, March 13, 2013
I guess you exempt yourself from that Sybil so that it's okay for you to ridicule me? Stop, you don't have to explain anymore; we all get that you want to insult and ridicule those of us who are secure enough to identify ourselves and you want to do it while hiding behind a rock. Do you need evidence via quotes of yours that that's what you do? Don't you understand that people see right through your act? You can't be that clueless as to believe the things you write.
Okay, seriously, I can't take anymore of your mindless banter and I'm sure anybody who wanted to read this blog stopped reading the comments long ago. You've finally exhausted the limit of my ability to deal with your banality, I'm moving on...
Enjoy YOURSELF, I know you will.
Susan Greene
12:21 pm on Wednesday, March 13, 2013
Your word is your bond Paul? really? Your solemn promise to Sybil? You put out a disclaimer stating you don't know your friend and Political buddy, well way to many peoplein G.T know better than that. Make sure you pretend you don't know him the next council meeting or S.B. Meeting that you both show up at to attack certain members. lol argo
Paul J. DiBartolo
12:35 pm on Wednesday, March 13, 2013
Again, I said, I don't know anyone by the name of Schmidt. If you care to identify who that is maybe I know him(?) by another name. It's your choice to identify the individual. I don't deal in dualities like you and your friends; I try to keep it on the up and up as best as possible. You may choose to think what you will, I really don't care.
You are now free to move about the blog and continue to post snarky comments with your "attack pack" friends. It appears that you guys have formed a real tight mutual admiration society. See you in the comics.
Sybil Evans
1:11 pm on Wednesday, March 13, 2013
See there you go again Paul, your on video tape sitting with him at council meetings laughing you were even told on the tape to hold it down because you two were disturbing the meeting...but you don't know him, whatever. Paul you have some serious credibility issues no wonder you know terms like attack dog and blog troll. Your buddies use them so much referring to you that you just assume that's what the other party does too. Lets give you an education. I, Sybil Evans, am in no way a part of the democrat party other then my vote registration declaration.
You Paul are a self proclaimed member of South Jersey Citizens. John Schmidt is a self proclaimed investigator for that group and you both go to council and school board meetings together. You have openly stated on here your job is to "ridicule" people. I find it hard to believe you two down know each other but if you want to keep up with that story it's your right to make a fool of yourself.
Sybil Evans
12:24 pm on Wednesday, March 13, 2013
Paul I see you want us to believe Schmidt must be to embarrassed to tell you his real name but you sit with him at council meetings your on video tape talking to him in council meetings, Go to the Twp website and watch the videos, Go to GTRMC website and watch the tapes. See Paul you can lie to some people that want to believe your lies but you have been on this site lying long enough.
"Paul J. DiBartolo
11:15 am on Wednesday, March 13, 2013
Disclaimer: I do not know who Schmidt is. If he(?) is someone I know than he(?) is using a false name..."
Funny you claim you don't know Schmidt? Judas denied Christ too, how poetic you would deny Schmidt during two weeks before the crucifixion, see the pattern, of course you did, Judas then turned him in for a couple pieces of silver. Now I in no way relate Schmidt to Christ just you to Judas. So what did you get? Copper, Zinc, an iron pill? Come on what did you get for Schmidt? I'm just curious what your motivation was. Your Pathetic.