Yes, Virginia, Voter Fraud Really Does Exist

Wanna know how to win an election? With 175,554 registered voters yielding 247,713 votes. That's what happened in St. Lucie County, FL.

A few months ago the topic of “voter fraud” came up on Patch and I was roundly ridiculed by two of Patch’s editors for suggesting such a thing existed and informed that because I supported voter ID, I was, more or less, in the bag for voter suppression. I don’t want to mention any names but the initials of the two gentlemen in question are Sean and Matt ;-). Seriously, I was assured by these two, based on a link to a story asserting that voter fraud was not really an issue, that voter ID was just a smokescreen put up by Republicans to suppress the Democratic vote.

Allow me to make full disclosure here. The fewer people that vote, the better off I think we are. I know, this stings some people’s sensibilities, but I am in no way suggesting that certain people should be barred from voting, for the law extends such rights to them and protects their right to vote. I am only suggesting that if they didn’t vote, I would not be crestfallen. Why? Because for some reason I seem to think that if a person has no idea who is vice president, or who is running for the office of vice president, or who is the secretary of defense, or that our embassy was raided and four Americans killed but thinks Benghazi is a Japanese restaurant in Cherry Hill, maybe they should pass on voting until they come up to speed. I am not the first to say it, but if you’re going to vote on how my money is being spent maybe you should throw some money into the pot as well and get some skin in the game.

So, moving to the real issue. Can anybody else smell the stench that is wafting across the river from Philadelphia? Here are some of the facts as I understand them. 

Philadelphia, in general, has about 60 percent voting participation based on government numbers. However, in a number of voting districts, where GOP poll watchers were forcibly removed, voting participation topped 90 percent. One district recorded 99.5 percent participation. Why were GOP poll inspectors forcibly removed from polling places in Philadelphia? This is an illegal action. Additionally, the New Black Panthers were at it again and just as in 2008, you can be sure that Attorney General Eric Holder will have no interest in looking at intimidation and suppression of the Republican vote.

Surprisingly, 59 districts in Philadelphia registered not vote for Mitt Romney at all. George W. Bush was blanked in five Philadelphia districts in 2004 but that number shot up astronomically to 57 for John McCain in 2008 and now 59 without a vote for Romney. Not one vote for Romney in 59 districts. I know, move along, nothing to see here.

Look, I get it; in many of these areas the population has forever pulled the Democratic lever, but not one dissenting vote out of 20,000? I understand that 75 to 80 percent of voters identifying themselves as Democrats is not uncommon in some of these areas, but, again, the numbers start to become unbelievable. Even those who lean Democratic and can swallow a number of zero precincts in large urban centers for the Democratic candidate find 59 such districts hard to swallow.

Then there was Virginia Democratic Congressman Jim Moran’s son and field director Patrick Moran, who had to resign in disgrace when video surfaced of him advising that “utility bills could be used to aid in voter fraud,” something, by the way, that I’ve been assured does not occur.

And how about St. Lucie County, FL, where only one precinct in the county had less than 113 percent voter turnout. “The Unofficial vote count (for the county) is 175,554 registered voters, 247,713 vote cards cast (141.10 percent).” Another polling place in the county, located in the National SEAL Museum, had 158.85 percent voter turnout, the highest in the county. Ignore the man behind the curtain and the extra people in the voting booth with you because I’m here to tell you that voter fraud is just not happening.

Finally, I heard of two or three instances where votes cast for Romney kept coming up Obama. Mysteriously, I never heard of any opposite occurrences.

Seriously, people, if voter suppression is occurring, it must be stopped but if voter fraud is occurring, it must also be stopped; not ignored in the name of it being the fix for voter suppression which is what the argument for voter ID is always countered with. For some reason, however, it’s always Democratic voter suppression that occurs and never suppression of the Republican vote.

This is how my argument went before so I’ll offer it again: “Is there any sound logic that you can offer that identifying voters to be who they say they are is harmful or bad?” Then let’s go ahead and do whatever it takes to make it happen. If you think not, then give me the logic for why one of the most important things we do needs not be controlled. Controlling the voting process through identification of the voters brings us to a place where we can all, equally, be comfortable with the outcome? It’s a no-brainer.

Yes, Virginia, voter fraud is alive and well. Tell me again now, Sean and Matt, how voter fraud is not a problem.

This post is contributed by a community member. The views expressed in this blog are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of Patch Media Corporation. Everyone is welcome to submit a post to Patch. If you'd like to post a blog, go here to get started.

Debi November 15, 2012 at 06:04 PM
I agree 100%. I have been following this story for some time and Fran, I'm sorry, no one with political power will do ANYTHING about it. The Republicans won't bring it up because all the liberals will just bombard them with cries of "sore losers" or "racists". The Democrats (especially the Norcross bought and paid for Democrats of Camden County) will never bring it up because they may lose influence. We're stuck with fraud, lies and manipulation and unfortunately...more democrats.
N/A November 16, 2012 at 04:18 AM
You need to accept the fact that the areas you’re talking about where no votes were cast for Romney were very blue collar American districts Basically the 47% of America Romney said he didn’t want to vote, all they did was what he asked them to do and not vote for him. You’re probably just upset that in the towns you reference they didn’t listen to Romney’s whole message and they actually did vote, Democrat. So the Republicans could not vote for them like they did in Oregon where when a person didn’t vote the republican poll workers decided to fill their votes in, ironically for Republicans, Surprise, Surprise! This is the problem you have when people do not vote it seems republicans take it upon themselves to make sure you vote and vote republican, if you choose not to vote. Maybe just maybe these areas your saying had over 100% turnout had the same Republican operatives teaching there poll workers how to get the vote out and used the same tactics as the poll workers in Oregon. http://www.blueoregon.com/2012/11/breaking-ballot-tampering-clackamas-county/ http://www.kdrv.com/alleged-ballot-tampering-in-oregon/
Jimm November 16, 2012 at 05:09 AM
If anyone bothered reading past page one of the "cards vs ballots" issue, NO precinct voted over 100%. The attached voting statement from the Clerk's Office from St Lucie County FL website includes all districts and each candidate voting totals as well as the amendments/questions. I took the time to read 170 pages and the vote totals - for example precinct #1 in St Lucie FL has 4815 registered voters, ONLY 3368 votes were cast for President and Vice President, and 8 of those were blank. The actual % of voters who voted including provisionals? 69.94807892004154 or 70% This is St Lucie's County unofficial voting results including provisionals as of 11/14/12... http://www.slcelections.com/ Choose Statement of Votes cast (NEW) and open. (PDF format) Click on page 3 and 4 for the actual votes cast for Pres & V.P., pages 3-12 show voting percentages and the breakdown The only complaints I found were from a Republican (Allen West) that narrowly lost to a Democrat (Patrick Murphy). about early voting, yet there is NO precinct reporting over 100% voter tabulation in ANY precinct for ANY office. Just more hocus pocus from one page of an unofficial report. When you dig down to the statistics of precincts and actual votes it is clear the hysteria is unwarranted... BTW - is the Washington Post a credible enough news reporting organization for you? . http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/11/06/pennsylvania-voting-machine-turns-obama-to-romney/
Paul J. DiBartolo November 16, 2012 at 01:27 PM
Maybe you missed the salient point of the blog, N/A, and that's not too hard for me to believe based on what I know about you. Anyway, voter fraud exists. I never doubted that it happens on both sides; to think otherwise would be naïve. Whether it's titled to one side more than the other might be a debatable point which I'm sure you and I would never agree upon. So, voter fraud exists, one thing we apparently agree upon, which therefore makes it a matter of concern for all. My point was that it is time to deal with it and make the move to Voter ID. Again, because of my support of such an idea I've been accused of supporting voter suppression. Not true. In fact, the point of the blog was to substantiate the fact that voter fraud occurs. Your statements back that claim up. Therefore, while I don't favor government solutions in many areas, this is one area which I believe is within the purview of our government, so I think we should expend whatever resources are required to make sure each and every legal voter gets a Voter ID card. Once that has happened we can require such ID from anyone wishing to cast a vote otherwise shut up and go home.
Paul J. DiBartolo November 16, 2012 at 01:42 PM
Please allow me to make a point about what occurred in PA based on information which was not available to me when I posted this piece. I listened to a PA elections board member state that she had worked in Chester County elections for nearly 30 years and had never seen a case where any candidate got 100% of votes cast. She further stated that even when candidates ran unopposed, people would invariably make their point by using the write-in option. So, the options available to voters in this election would have been Obama, Romney, any and all third party candidates - and there were a number of those depending you where you were and I'm sure I can say there were no precincts without at least one third party candidate - and, finally, a write-in option. We are thus presented with, and expected to believe, that in 59 voting districts in Philadelphia, Democratic districts to be sure, there was not one dissenting vote cast against Mr. Obama. Not one. Not only do I find that to stretch the limits of credibility but so does an election board member who never observed such for 30 years. I'm not suggesting that voter fraud never occurs at the hands of Republicans. My point is that it occurs and thus has to be stopped and the only thing that can start us on the road to deal with it is Voter ID. Finally, I've asked before and never gotten a response so I will ask again, if there is somebody that can make a logical argument as to why Voter ID is a bad idea, please, enlighten me.
Paul J. DiBartolo November 16, 2012 at 02:29 PM
>> BTW... Actually, no, Jimm, I do not consider that "bastion of moderation," otherwise known as the Washington Post, a credible news reporting organization, anymore than I would the New York Times. Please, give us a break. So, I get it, Jimm, you didn't like my opinion of the St. Lucie County debacle. I will say this, I did read something about two page ballots but I never actually saw a report that specifically nailed the over-voting that was reported as attributed to that. What I did see was this... The Supervisor of Elections, Gertrude Walker, had this to say concerning the 141% voter turnout: “They may have had something like that in Palm Beach County, but we’ve never seen that here.” Now, would you care to tell me exactly what that means? That sounds like the Supervisor of Elections stated that she is well aware that voting snafus are common in Palm Beach County but had never seen it as being reported in St. Lucie County. As I've already stated, the point of the blog is that voter fraud occurs and is reason enough to justify Voter ID regardless of all the hand wringing amongst Democrats who fear that the push for Voter ID is an attempt to disenfranchise their voter base. Please see what follows...
Paul J. DiBartolo November 16, 2012 at 02:32 PM
Does voter fraud exist? From Colorado...“A review of voter registration data for ten counties in Colorado details a pattern of voter bloat inflating registration rolls to numbers larger than the total voting age population. Using publicly available voter data and comparing it to U.S. Census records reveals the ten counties having a total registration ranging between 104 to 140 percent of the respective populations.” From Ohio...…the Sunday edition of the Columbus Dispatch, (in which) readers were informed that “more than one out of every five registered Ohio voters is probably ineligible to vote.” And elsewhere... “A number of voters across the country received a bit of a shock when they were told by poll workers on Tuesday they had already voted, even though they hadn't. At the same time, others bragged about voting multiple times on Twitter.” Bottom line..Make Voter-ID a reality.
Jimm November 16, 2012 at 03:47 PM
Ok Paul, What I objected to and you conviently ignored in your reply is your use of "facts" to support your claim of voter fraud, that are really not facts at all. I actually agree with voter ID with registration. But as with all large programs you have to START somewhere, not just a knee jerk reaction when less than 0.004 cases of fraud have been proven in courts across the USA (cite; The Daily Show with John Stewart LOL!). To further illustrate my point you state a "fact" of 59 voting districts (called wards in Philly) 100% of the votes cast were for Obama. Considering there are One Thousand Six Hundred and Fifty Nine 1,659) wards in the County of Philadelphia. website http://filter.phillyelectionresults.com/comprehensive.aspx#race Philadelphia County is known as the City of Philadelphia. Above is the website for Election Results for the City of Philadelphia by Ward. I randomly checked 5 of them and found an average of 85% voted for Obama, approximately 14% voted for Romney, which leaves 1% for the "Mickey Mouse" left blank, or write in votes. Now where did you get your "fact" and in what wards did these irregularities occur? You also are quoting someone who was appointed by a Republican governor and whose experience is with a predominately Republican County (outside of Chester City). Did this alleged irregularityalso occur in Chester County too? Again I did not miss your point - I AGREE with voter ID. your facts claim is what I disagree with...
Jimm November 16, 2012 at 03:55 PM
Ok I see where my "facts" are wrong also... There are 1687 precincts in 66 wards... still I have not found any wards where the precincts returned no votes for Romney
N/A November 16, 2012 at 03:57 PM
Voter ID does not solve the problem I exampled. Just as Black Panthers at polling places does not mean people will not vote their hearts once inside the booth. These absentee and early ballots should be counted in public just like voter machines are. These ballots should be opened and counted on arrival and never be left alone. If you want confidentiality, vote in the booth. That paper ballot should never be left lying around like they are now, sometimes for up to 6 weeks. If not at a minimum they need to be under lock and key as well as video surveillance 24/7. There is too much temptation and ability to tamper with them, if they are not counted quicker. When ballots come in the voter statement is separated from the ballot so the ballot easily can be switched or altered as you see from the stories in the links above.
Paul J. DiBartolo November 16, 2012 at 07:36 PM
Hey Jimm, as per the Patch's request, hyperlinks are incorporated into phrases in the story. That's why the words "Not one vote for Romney in 59 districts" are in blue. (Hey Sean, maybe this technique should be abandoned because this is the second time it has come up in my last two blogs). Anyway... http://articles.philly.com/2012-11-13/news/35069785_1_romney-supporters-mitt-romney-voter-id-law So, the link is from Philly.com and that is not a conservative publication so make of it what you will. As for facts...I agreed that I had read something that stated there were two page ballots in Florida but nothing that ever dismissed the over-voting to that, so I moved on. As for Philadelphia, yes, the 59 districts represented something over three-percent of the votes in Philadelphia. I get it. Philly.com reported 59 districts returned 100-percent of the votes cast for Obama. Are you denying that? You checked 5 wards. Philadelphia has 66 of them with 10 to 50 divisions in each Ward. My guess is that when the word district is used it is probably referring to a division. Additionally, other people, other than myself, in fact, people associated with the election board (you call them Republicans conveniently) thought that any division without one dissenting vote seemed odd, let alone 59.
Jimm November 16, 2012 at 08:12 PM
Ok I found the article, they still do not list the district/precinct/ward they occurred at... again not your fault. Also the article you tagged is the only complaint I found in the searches on St. Lucie County elections for 2012. So who exactly is outraged? It didnt even make the regional papers from what I found (looked at Tampa Tribune, Miami Herald, Orlando Sentinel, etc.) Do you agree the unofficial records show no overvoting in any district in St Lucie County? The questionable Philly voting districts should be investigated - I thouroughly agree with that. Yet you use 59 districts/precincts that accounted for less than 3% of the entire city's votes to push for immediate reform affecting the 97% of the city + an entire state of millions more that has/had no problem? WHY? How do you justify the cost to be incurred either by the government (state mandates = state pays) or even more inprobably to the voters themselves? To prosecute and incarcerate thousands involved in wrongdoing would still be less expensive than forcing +100 million voters to obtain voting ID cards, surely you could see this is absurd? I think NJ could add it to the drivers license/ ID card function more effectively than setting up another bureaucracy to load up for political patronage jobs? But it would take at least 4 years to turn over everyone to a new license/ID, which is probably not acceptable to you.
Jimm November 16, 2012 at 08:32 PM
Paul Conveniently she IS a Republican working for a Republican governor and appointed this past year, and Chester County votes mostly Republican outside of Chester City. Why is that convenient? It is what it is... You chose to quote her, I chose to view her credentials to determine why she may have made her comment about a neighboring County. After all on page three of the article in 2008 McCain was blanked in 57 precincts in Philly and Dubya got blanked in 5 precincts in 2004,so it wasn't a problem until "conveniently" now?
Jimm November 16, 2012 at 08:58 PM
From the 2011 Report to the General Assembly on Voter Registration presented to Legislature by Secretary of State Carole Aichele 6/2012. http://www.dos.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/voting_and__elections/12363 Appendix B page 16 Registered Republicans in Philadelphia County in 2009 = 134,216 Registered Republicans in Philadelphia County in 2011 = 127,506 Net loss 5% in two years... conspiracy theorists could say... I would say its white flight, and the voting results are payback for abandoning the cities 30-40 years ago. Just my opinion. I tried to attach the website to the sentence - it just doesnt work, obviously my fault but if my point gets across as well doing it this way :) Call me a Jesuit! LOL!
Paul J. DiBartolo November 16, 2012 at 11:53 PM
If you read my blog you will see that it is a problem...for me. I can live with 5 precincts blanking George Bush; that's believable. When it jumps to 57 for McCain...something is rotten in Denmark.
Paul J. DiBartolo November 17, 2012 at 02:13 PM
Jimm, twice now you've pointed out that "she IS a Republican working for a Republican governor..." (emphasis yours on 'IS'). So, let me get this straight, when Ed Rendell was governor of PA or Mayor of Philadelphia everything was on the up and up? Would you care to answer the question - Just how corrupt is Philadelphia the Democrat and union stronghold? Street and Nutter? Give me a break.
Paul J. DiBartolo November 17, 2012 at 02:23 PM
You seemed surprised by a 5% change in registered Republicans. Hmmmm, I don't know, I get it, Republicans are moving out. Payback for 'white flight'? Let me guess, you're a Trurther and Birther, as well? Give me a break, are you that naive? Payback for 'white flight.' Did you type that with a straight face? You want statistics that will make you gawk? Bush blanked in 5 divisions in 2004 then McCain blanked in 57 divisions in 2008. That's 1000%, Jimm. Totally believable for you but you think a 5% loss in Republicans is some kind of conspiracy. You can't make this stuff up! >> but if my point gets across as well doing it this way :) No, your point did not get across, it was lost in the noise.
Jimm November 17, 2012 at 06:10 PM
Paul, Naive? Really? I'm not a Truther or a Birther either, Sarcasm that went over your head? Surprised that 5% R's in two years left a Democratic stronghold? Nahhh, I doubt they were ever there to begin with. Were you surprised that the reporters couldnt find registered republicans in heavily democratic wards where the residents never heard of them? Perhaps you let that go too... WAKE UP, they are ALL crooks n crackpots! Whatever color or animal they pay homage to is window dressing on "both sides of the aisle"! Its every ego for themselves, Spend a total of 6.6 Billion dollars on the races that pay less than 114 Million dollars combined? And your complaining about irregularities that amount to peanuts? (<3% of a Citys vote that was 85% Democratic) Are you naive? or just enjoy tilting at windmills? You asked for a cogent argument against voter ID? I gave you one even though I agree with the premise - cost! There was no reply to that either. if someone has ability/access to place phantom republicans in democratic strongholds, or run the board in a district/precinct, or illegally challenge voters for ID outside Dem polling places, ALL are pathetic examples of our voting system, but you see what you want to see or what is "convenient" ( YOUR word not mine). So exactly who is naive here? I say your tilting at windmills - but will argue that you have your right to express your opinion, that IS one of the freedoms we enjoy that is worth fighting for.
Paul J. DiBartolo November 17, 2012 at 06:25 PM
Actually, Jimm, I'm way ahead of you; that was sarcasm on my part, you see, I believe that sarcasm is the highest form of argumentation. Besides, if it wasn't for 'sarcasm', I wouldn't have any 'casm'. You really thought I was accusing you of being a Birther or a Truther? You really are naive! $6.6 billion? that number goes up every time I hear it. Cost is not a cogent argument in my mind. As you pointed out, for instance, NJ already has Photo Licenses. With all the rocket scientists in government (people telling us how great it is for the economy that we have millions on food stamps, etc.) one of them can figure out how to come up with the money. This is actually something that should fall under the purview of the Fed - qualifying the voting public. Besides, I'm sure many of us already have Picture ID so we don't have to repeat. Phase it in. Again, you can sweep it under the rug anyway you want, I get it. Is it a problem now? I think so...you don't. Will it continue to get worse? I think so, maybe you don't. Do you remember the howl that went up over Bush vs. Gore? Was that election stolen? If you think so do you still think I'm titling at windmills?
Jimm November 17, 2012 at 06:37 PM
Paul, Since you obviously didn't get my sarcasm, let me spell it out for you... Look at Swing States - Colorado and Ohio... 90% of the landmass by county voted for Romney in both states, yet the urban areas carried the vote to Obama. Why? because the highest voter concentration areas held approximately a 5-1 voting advantage Obama vs Romney. Now for the education part - those minorities are concentrated in urban areas, duh. Which have the lowest education and earnings of ANY voting block, duh... and are consistently voting democratic, duh. The Republican response is to attack! So HOW in the next 4 years is the Republican party going to offset that 3% increase in likely democratic voters? By hyperbolically screaming tactics of fraud and registration requirements? By insisting that the convergence of minorities has NOTHING to do with the wealthy holding money and jobs back while Obama is in office and spending like drunken sailors in a failed attempt to defeat him? You think that isn't discussed? Donna Brazile flat out said it on Meet the Press... "The highest liquidity averages among Fortune 500 companies since the 1960's has occurred since President Obama took office in 2008" That means they did not / would not spend money to employ people when the economy was bad, hoping to use it in 2012 to unseat Obama. D U H! You think that message wasn't spread on the street to the "evil operatives" in record time? Why the minorities went nuts after Romney's 47% comments?
Paul J. DiBartolo November 17, 2012 at 06:49 PM
>> That means they did not / would not spend money to employ people when the economy was bad, hoping to use it in 2012 to unseat Obama. D U H! Please direct me to anyone who said, "As a small, medium, large business owner or a cooperate CEO, my business plan going forward is to hold off on expansion when I see an opportunity because rather than become more successful and grow my business I would rather hurt the president and hopefully guarantee he doesn't get re-elected in 2012." Did it occur to you that the phenomena that Donna Brazille described had to do with a recession, a bad economy and future outlook, and animosity by our government towards business? You know, Jimm, you're starting to lose me. What the heck are you talking about?
Jimm November 17, 2012 at 07:37 PM
LOL - business plan of expansion? You ARE kidding right? (some of your sarcasm/reasoning escapes me too, Paul) Obviously you do not understand that in 2008 the Fortune 500 businesses DIDN'T have the liquidity that she was referring to, it was the END of four years that they did... purely by accident of course, they laid off employees, closed plants and claimed government wasn't "fair" after the largest fraud perpetuated on the American republic in its history by Wall Street - which is in the business of "business"... Hmm those poor old millionaires, while the Stock Market rose back to pre recession levels in THREE years despite big bad old government holding them back, managed to sock away quite a nest egg and paid dividends while crying poor - and you obviously bought it, hook line and sinker! Liquidity is cash on hand - the preliminary SEC and FEC filings show Fortune 500 companies shelled out more to political campaigns and Super Pac's of both parties than the last two elections combined!!! They can't create jobs but can pay to change presidents! And you repeatedly say I'm naive??? You parrot the R party line, as if you say it often enough it will become truth... My point is the political system has been thoroughly corrupted by money and the working classes and upper classes are inevitibly headed for a class "war". This election was the opening salvo for the Blue collar workers, yet you choose to listen to the fiddle while in Rome the smoke is beginning to rise...
Jimm November 17, 2012 at 08:14 PM
>>Do you remember the howl that went up over Bush vs. Gore? Was that election stolen? If you think so do you still think I'm titling at windmills? Paul, Yes I remember Bush/Gore. With the advantage of hindsight the results in FL resulted in change there (not all better, but change nonetheless). I view Gore as 1996's Mitt Romney, he just couldn't stay on the right topics to win enough votes to win... Are you tilting at windmills? Absofreakinloutely! If in a fit of generosity the democrats awarded Romney EVERY vote of the 59 districts in Philadelphia that Romney was blanked in, would that change anything? the 3.5% of every vote would not give Romney a win in Philadelphia, or in PA either , Therefore by that reasoning alone it is the definition of tilting at windmills! Call yourself Don on that one friend! >>Cost is not a cogent argument in your mind... and...if voter fraud prevention is cogent in your mind, but the cost analysis isn't a part of that prevention, what part of the business world does that fit? You see no problem with spending $6.6B (or thereabouts) for $114M salary, but resent the Food Stamps given to feed the hungry? You are quite an interesting man, I applaud your standing up for what you believe in, but shake my head at the trails of reasoning you follow. You seem to move from point to point in your postings when articles of argument are refuted, but then claim to not follow the reasoning refuting the argument? A S K if you dont understand.
Paul J. DiBartolo November 17, 2012 at 09:20 PM
Jimm, you seem quite angst ridden. How long have you felt his way? This blog was about my opinion about the need for Voter ID. You want to talk economics and business? Write a blog expressing your view and I'll be glad to debate it with you.
Paul J. DiBartolo November 17, 2012 at 09:29 PM
Did I say giving the votes to Romney would change the outcome of the election, Jimm? Absolutely not! Did I say he deserved them? Absolutely not! What I said was I find it stretching credibility to think that he didn't get one vote in 59 divisions and I stand by that comment. I get it that you don't agree, Jimm. Noted! Speaking of flitting from idea to idea, that's the way you arrange your talking points. If you had taken the care to read the things I've written you would know that I never argued that the outcome of the election would change. I support reasonable ideas that are founded on sound logical arguments. I made an argument for instituting Voter ID. You seemed to agree with it but one is never sure when you start bloviating. So, what are the valid arguments for and against Voter ID? That's where this started and that's where it ends for me. Truth is truth, you don't get your own version of things. If cost is the only prohibitive you can think of for Voter ID, you need to come up with a better argument because I think the cost can be managed.
Jimm November 17, 2012 at 10:13 PM
Paul, Your blog used the point that voter fraud in St Lucie Co. FL was rampant, NO? When that "fact" was refuted you used the word debacle, when I researched the alleged "fraud" perpetuated there...guess what? NO regional or local newspaper had one article on it? Big outrage huh? Again where's the beef? LOL Your next tactic was to next use Philadelphia, NO? >>"What I objected to and you conviently ignored in your reply is your use of "facts" to support your claim of voter fraud, that are really not facts at all. But I said >>"I actually agree with voter ID with registration" Again I answered your Philly with points from the very same article you drew your conclusions from (the Stanford politics professor used two other cities where 100% voting happened also) and the phantom republicans, again you ignored it and referred back to your blog, which you feel is "justified" by what I feel are false facts. >>"The questionable Philly voting districts should be investigated - I thouroughly agree with that". Your answer to this point? You still are arguing for a reason not to employ voting ID cards. I gave you one - regardless what you think of it, I gave you what you asked for and a solution to implement it too, balls in your court on that one...
Jimm November 17, 2012 at 10:43 PM
Again the baiting is humorous to me and I'm enjoying parrying the high school debate tactics you employ. I'm fairly talented and intelligent and have experience in researching facts and separating opinions from them. That does not seem to be one of your qualities presented here. I have no interest in sycophantry here and respect your right to your opinion, however your "poetry in motion" does not change cold hard facts. 1) Money ruined politics - $6.6B or whatever number your comfortable using is an obscene amount of money to spend for political positions totalling less than $114M in salary. That over half of that amount was raised by Super Pacs so it's not Mom and Pop putting $5 in the kitty there. Fortune 500 companies donated over twice the amount given from the last two elections also, but only you can't see how thats more dangerous than 57 one hundred percent democratic voting districts in Philly? 2) Voting fraud - as you admitted too occurs on both sides of the aisle. Since you seem fixated on voter registration as the cure - for what? 14% of those 17K votes in Philly? Cuyahoga Co OH? The whole state of California? If R's can place phantom voters in predominately black NW Philly neighborhoods, what is a govt issued card going to FIX? go to City hall with a gas bill or electric bill and a change of address form and get a CARD that says you live there... Thats your solution? YES, that will fix it! Angst? Please!
Paul J. DiBartolo November 18, 2012 at 12:19 AM
>> I'm fairly talented and intelligent... I'm glad you said it, Jimm. Go ahead, write the blog and make the case that voter fraud is not an issue and we're all fine. Then wrote one with your views about where the money spent on political campaigns should be spent. Show us all exactly how intelligent and talented you are, Jimm. BTW, Jimm, it's not your money so what's your beef. Oh, that's right, you're mad at the people who spent that money for not using it to build up the economy and make Obama's first term look more stellar than it was. You don't like the political spending...by all means, don't participate. What next, pass laws that tell somebody what they can spend and where? BTW, you've made your point over and over and over again, I think. Until you have something new to say please don't say it anymore. Seriously, don't waste anymore of our time.
Paul J. DiBartolo November 18, 2012 at 12:20 AM
>> Rampant? Please provide chapter and verse where I said that or even implied it. Jimm, give it a rest. Yea, Jimm, you refuted a point I never made. Is that like setting up straw-men just to knock them down? How's it make you feel? Your reason...cost. I told you I disagree, Jimm. I provided work-arounds. You don't like them. If that's all there is, this is over. Actually it was over a long time ago. You want to argue there's no such thing as voter fraud? Have at it. You have everyone's attention.
Jimm November 18, 2012 at 12:57 AM
Are you an early alzheimer candidate? To refresh your memory I pointed out and you later agreed, St Lucie Co did not "overvote" as you alleged in your blog, >> "Ignore the man behind the curtain and the extra people in the voting booth with you because I’m here to tell you that voter fraud is just not happening". You also cited examples of over 100% voting there... remember? reread your blog by all means... You began this journey with the blog and danced when you got caught with rebuttals "that had not come to your attention", Now you want to quit because big bad Jimm is picking on you... boo-hoo be a man - you put the challenge out there... OK you want to make voter ID's to combat fraud? I agreed with the point and I gave a suggestion how to do it - voter ID's with registration be it car,gun,insurance - you pick it, but it will not matter. Implementing voter ID if just like the NRA line "outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns" You can walk into DMV and with six points & get an ID, you know how easy it is to get past that? Most utility bills are paid online nowadays, when I went to Runnemede DMV, the person in line used a letterhead from Atlantic Electric and an e-mail as proof of utility service for one of the six points because he paid his bill online. And your idea is foolproof, right ? Go on and bellyache - your a (R) spittoon catcher and regurgitator, your not interested in dialogue, you have your views and thats it. I dont agree? goodbye LOL! fool


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